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Politics : Foreign Policy Discussion Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: ChinuSFO who wrote (5648)	7/13/2003 12:24:15 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 15991

You talk about the past, I am talking about the future. Oh, I'm talking about the future too, about how, if you and like-minded left-wing Democrats don't smarten up your approach, you are setting yourself up for a Republican landslide. Which I don't particularly want, you know; I'm a centrist. I'm not looking forward to uncontested government by the Republican right. And you will see the string of news that comes from Washington DC about manipulation, lies and deceit that went on in Washington since Bush entered office. Now, I understand that if Bush says "A", and "A" turns out not be true, that this instantly translates into "manipulation, lies and deceit" in your eyes, since you consider Bush & co so malevolent. But please believe me (or, if you don't believe me, believe the polls) that this translation does not happen instantly for most Americans. They entertain the idea, ridiculous to you, that Bush might have been mistaken about something. As far as I can see, the Bush administration absolutely believed Saddam had lots of WMDs, chem and bio, around. All our intelligence services said so, and the intelligence services of the British, French, Germans, etc, etc all concurred. After all, Saddam had not only had these weapons previously, he had used them. He was sacrificing billions and billions of dollars in oil revenues to keep them. Naturally it is now a high priority to figure out what happened to these weapons. If they were destroyed, where, when and by whom; if they were transferred out of country, when & to whom. I expect to hear the answer to these questions eventually. The assumption you seem to be making is that the political situation will not be altered between now and the election by any news from Iraq, aside from the bad news of the continuing guerrilla war. This assumes that Bush & co will remain inert for the next year and a half. I doubt it. The US may have met more resistance - how organized it is remains a question, it seems to be organized only in patches - than they bargained for. Doesn't necessarily mean it will go on for ever, you know. Counter-insurgency wars can be fought and won, particularly when the population is not sympathetic to the guerillas, and the vast majority of Iraqis are not sympathetic to Ba'athists. Also, between now and then, the US army will have a chance to translate and read the great masses of Iraqi government papers that they have captured. Maybe they'll find something interesting, you know? Then they will know what questions to ask. BTW, Fox is now reporting that the Israeli Security Services have arrested an IRA member on the West Bank whom the Brits have been looking for for years. He was doing 'technology transfer', i.e. teaching the Pals to build better bombs. Sharon's in England today, think he may raise the subject with PM Blair?

To: ChinuSFO who wrote (5648)	7/13/2003 4:40:27 PM
From: DavesM	Respond to of 15991

re: "Is there really a connection between Al Qaeda and Saddam? Said who?" Yes, there is a link between Al Qaeda and Saddam's Iraq. Who said?...Leaders of Abu Sayyaf (a Philippine group founded by men chosen by OBL's brother in-law) claim to being offered a bounty from Iraq, to kill Americans. And the Philippines sent an Iraqi diplomat home after there was a bombing, (where an American soldier was killed), and a call from Abu Sayyaf to the Iraqi's was intercepted. re:"Did Saddam have WMD? Where are they? Why does it take so long?" Did Saddam have WMDs? Clearly he did, there is no doubt about this. The question, is where are they, and what happened to them. If he did destroy them, as his people claimed, then why didn't they properly document and satisfy Inspectors - which would have lifted sanctions? re:"We are winning the war on terrorism? Where is Saddam and Osama?" OBL has been on the FBI most wanted list since 1998. I think the Olympic bomber was on the FBI most wanted list even longer. re:" that phrase which even resonates today: It is the economy, stupid." Fact: When President Clinton was sworn in, the economy was out of recession and in recovery for over a year. When GWB was sworn in, the economy was entering (or already in) recession. The year before GWB was sworn in, the market crash began. The S&P had its worst year in a couple decades, and the Nasdaq, had its worst year ever. The magnitude of the market crash rivals the Japanese market crash or 1929. One could argue that the U.S. economy has done quite well considering the amount of equity that was destroyed.