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Strategies & Market Trends : VOLTAIRE'S PORCH-MODERATED -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: elpolvo who wrote (58698)	7/15/2003 4:47:55 PM
From: Sully-	Respond to of 65232

"covert US actions like the US supplying iraq with weapons and lethal gas for their conflict with iran. maybe that's irrelevant?" You know I keep hearing folks make this allegation, but I've never been able to substantiate it (the WMD allegation). Got any links that might help me find clear evidence this actually happened, because it seems to me it's just an urban legend that has become fact for certain folks. And one more thing. Even if it is true, how does that make our current President wrong or bad for doing the right thing now? TIA

To: elpolvo who wrote (58698)	7/15/2003 5:31:54 PM
From: Sully-	Respond to of 65232

Murrey said....."IMO it's a good read for those who continue to post a one-sided bias against what we're doing in Iraq." And you said.... "i don't see the relevance of that statement to the post you linked to. but i don't see anything that needs rebuttal in that post either." I do. If you actually followed what this administration clearly & frequently laid out to the world regarding the threat of WMD's & rouge nations sponsoring, harboring, supporting & training terrorists, you would already know how completely inappropriate your comment was. Hell, even nations that opposed our intervention in Iraq all agreed with most of the WMD evidence the Bush Administration laid out, their own intelligence agencies knew it was true, plus UN documented it independently. Whether you want to admit it or not, 9/11 changed how the US is going to deal with terrorists & rouge nations. They brought the massive slaughter of innocent civilians & destruction to our economic infrastructure to our shores. They made it clear that they intend to continue to terrorise innocent civilians & our economies here & in other free & democratic countries. Adding WMD's into the mix makes their potential to slaughter countless thousands in one strike a real & present danger. However, since Murrey was so spot on about folks who, "continue to post a one-sided bias against what we're doing in Iraq" & your consistent agreement with these folks, regardless of the facts or reality, one can understand why you still just don't get it. It's one thing to distrust politicians, particularly those with an affiliation that opposes your own. It's another to ascribe to them all manner of false perceptions & believing almost everything that those with extreme POV's spew regardless of the facts or reality. POV's, repeatedly offered that lack any credibility & are frequently false, blatantly distorted & intentionally misleading, are genuinely harmful & anti-American simply due to holding inflexible & extreme political beliefs that lack any basis in reality. It's beyond my comprehension that this isn't obvious to those that spew this garbage.

To: elpolvo who wrote (58698)	7/15/2003 5:48:04 PM
From: Sully-	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 65232

"what we're doing in iraq right now is without the support and involvement of the international community. we've ignored and skirted international law, denied due process of law to the accused and acted on our own outside of the international community in a matter that clearly belongs in international hands." That's an old & thoroughly discredited argument. You may wish to cling to this misguided & inaccurate belief, but it won't change reality. Bottom line - Iraq was repeatedly in violation of the Gulf War cease fire agreement - the resumption of hostilities was clearly legal - that doesn't even consider the 17 UN resolutions leading up to resolution 1441 that clearly drew the line in the sand & opened the door to the removal of that horrific regime. Hell, France, Germany, Russia & China all tried this ploy before the war, but we now know they had skeletons in their closet that they didn't want revealed when overthrew Iraq. Illegal weapons sales, illegal service & maintenance contracts of Iraq's military, illegal contracts worth billions, illegally provided intelligence, etc., etc. You don't see any of these countries going to the UN to sanction the US with your oh so thoroughly discredited argument, do you?

To: elpolvo who wrote (58698)	7/15/2003 6:09:39 PM
From: lurqer	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 65232

i try not to discuss these matters on this thread Nor I, since I like a tranquil porch. I figured if anyone should be so foolish as to be interested in my opinion on anything political, it's easy to find. Think I'll just slide over to a quiet corner here, and enjoy my drink. Care to join me? We could quietly discuss the PNAC. Why do you think the website went down? lurqer

To: elpolvo who wrote (58698)	7/15/2003 6:30:05 PM
From: Murrey Walker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 65232

what i do see as needing rebuttal is your implication or inference that the US is not doing anything wrong in iraq. (if that's not your point then ignore the rest of this message.) If that is the message you got out of my post, Dusty, I failed to communicate to you (and I did make my post ******To All*****)! I spent my time overseas with Uncle Sam in 67-68. No, it wasn't Vietnam (had my orders for there changed at the last minute). I spent my time as a small unit guided missile commander in Korea. About the only thing exciting during that time was the Pueblo crisis. I DO have a little experience with the military and if I gave you the impression that our government was doing everything right, then I apologize. THEY DON'T! Like every organization I'm aware of, mistakes are made and sometimes they are doozies. But, by and large our military does their job and they do it right. And, by and large our government does the same. The purpose of my post was to point out a rebuttal ( a significant bit of history, not hysterics) that Sig made. There are those on SI who do nothing but post anti military or anti government because they are still pissed because their guy didn't make it to the presidency. To that I say get over it, because that was then and this is now! I acknowledge the fact that there are many who are (pick your degree of ferverence) against what our government is doing. To that, I say: THAT IS THEIR GOD GIVEN RIGHT! I gave Uncle Sam two years of my life to ensure that! I feel sorry that this conflict is doing it's best to polarize what is a great country. However, I do hope that, in my lifetime, what we're doing right now will prove to all the nay sayers that we did the right thing and didn't set around with our fingers up our rectum complaining about all the mistakes that are being made! I should be so lucky as to have Claudette make her presence felt in the Ozarks. Don't think so! :-)