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Politics : Stockman Scott's Political Debate Porch -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: epicure who wrote (22420)	7/16/2003 12:22:12 PM
From: T L Comiskey	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 89467

Pro-American Mayor, Son Killed in Iraq BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - The pro-American mayor of the western city of Hadithah was shot and killed driving through the town Wednesday in escalating violence in Iraq that also took the lives of a U.S. soldier in a supply convoy and an 8-year-old Iraqi in an attack on U.S. forces guarding a Baghdad bank. The U.S. military confirmed a report by the Arab satellite network Al-Jazeera that Mayor Mohammed Nayil al-Jurayfi's car was shot up by unidentified attackers as he drove through the city of about 150,000 about 150 miles northwest of Baghdad

To: epicure who wrote (22420)	7/16/2003 1:04:22 PM
From: lurqer	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 89467

Their dreams of global supremacy based on the unilateral use of US military power are clearly foundering in Iraq as they come up against the very real limits of US manpower and their contempt for the interests of other nations. Last fall, in a discussion of the PNAC, in response to a commit about what to expect after Iraq (Iran, Korea, the world), I demurred. Believing as I did, that the neo-cons had completely misread the likely Islamic response to an invasion of their Ummah (or Umma), I argued that Iraq would prove to be intractable (later, I've used the word Tar Baby), and would preclude many further "adventures". I suppose the good news is, that's proved correct, while the bad news is, that's proved correct. Unfortunately, the terrible news is, that my prediction of "bull's eyes painted on the backs of US troops”, has also proven correct. When you listen both to the architects of this mad fantasy, as well as their apologists on this thread, so far no remorse, no mea culpa. Only, “we must press on” and the “troops will stay there as long as needed”. Convinced that is close to eternity, the question is what will be necessary to change their minds? I witnessed this syndrome during our Viet Nam debacle. Especially after Tet, only the rabid die hards still preached victory, but many thousands continued to die and be maimed on both sides. So how do we “speed” the process of a “reassessment” that will extricate us? A removal from office by election, is the obviously desirable course. Currently, I have serious reservations of the likely success of this effort. Doesn’t mean I won’t support the effort completely, just that I don’t want all my “bring the troops home” eggs in one basket. Too many lives at stake. Currently, I don’t have any better idea than to support the burgeoning anti-war movement. In a political year, it’s easier to get the attention of a wider audience. By October 2004, with the US Death Count still rising, I’d like to see an anti-war outpouring from the American populace that is so powerful, that it can not be ignored by whomever wins. Only the continued pressure from such a force will slowly redirect our current “voyage into madness”. JMO lurqer