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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: epicure who wrote (105868)	7/16/2003 10:16:51 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 281500

I am prepared to see the KKK and the Black Panthers as all part of America; So you must be prepared to see the Aryan Nations, Skinheads, Bloods, Crips, Triads, Mafia, Cartels all as part of America? Are we supposed to tolerate their criminal enterprises as expressions of "individual freedom"? And since when are we, as a freedom loving people, bound to tolerate any group of people hell-bent upon depriving others of their freedoms? Toleration is one of the foundations of this country, but the minute you begin to extend that toleration to individuals who will not reciprocate, you're going to eventually be hung by your own rope. Hawk

To: epicure who wrote (105868)	7/17/2003 1:59:22 PM
From: Jacob Snyder	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

re: "You need to fight fire with fire." America is an Idea, and that Idea is expressed in the Constitution and Declaration of Independence. That Idea has, occasionally, been forgotten by the majority of the people living in the U.S.A. We are living in one of those dark times, today. The KKK, and the Black Panthers, and now the Imperialist NeoCons, in their various ways, all have damaged the Idea of America. I am not a Moral Relativist. When I see evil, I am willing to call it that, clearly, loudly. The debate between the War Party (which includes many Democrats, and most of the UK Labor Party) and the Peace Party, goes like this: Peace Party: Here are 27 internal contradictions, and 19 historical precedents, and 11 facts, and 3 detailed logical arguments, why your programs are not going to work. War Party: Traitor! Traitor! Traitor! You just hate America! Now, I recognize the War Party's debate method. It is a very successful method. They reduce their message to a few simple slogans, using highly emotional words. They evoke an external threat, to suppress internal dissent. They repeat their slogans endlessly, at high volume. Their method is: first faith, then facts. How to respond to this? It is ineffective, to simply continue to attack their facts. Rather, I must erode their faith. And that must be done with an emotional appeal. So, I too must use emotion-laden words. I must wade into the battle of labels, the battle to assign CorrectNames. The War Party is continuously trying to assign negative labels to me: traitor, useful idiot, coward, wimp, elitist, even terrorist. They set up concentration camps, and then say I am against freedom. They detain thousands, without any charges or trials, and then say I am against the rule of law. They cancel elections and set up military governments, and then say I am against democracy. They get away with the most blatant hypocrisy. If they can assign these negative labels to the Peace Party, they have won the public debate, no matter how many facts we have on our side. So, we must challenge this, whenever they try it. If your methods are coldly logical, devoid of emotion, you will lose the debate. Your opponents understand this clearly, and you need to, too.