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Politics : Foreign Policy Discussion Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: ChinuSFO who wrote (5673)	7/16/2003 10:46:12 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 15991

According to whose standards is Saddam's regime brutal? Is he the only tyrant? But his IS the primary one obligated to abide by UNSC Binding resolutions, which he agreed to after being defeated by an international coalition and thrown out of Kuwait. Yet, those three countries chose to support him over enforcing those UN resolutions. In fact, they did everything to undercut them and render them useless.. It will be interesting if the British reveal the French to be the ones who provided them the information regarding Uranium from Niger and Saddam... It would be further indication that France was DELIBERATELY trying to conceal VITAL information from the US, the UN, and from it's own people. Hawk

To: ChinuSFO who wrote (5673)	7/17/2003 9:51:22 AM
From: DavesM	Respond to of 15991

re:"According to whose standards is Saddam's regime brutal?" On any scale you care to use, Saddam's regime was brutal. 1979 Saddam becomes President. Besides the people killed, to keep the population in fear and awe. 1. 1980 Iran/Iraq war started by Saddam - around 1,000,000 killed over 8 years 2. 1983-1991 repression of Iraqi Kurds - 200,000-300,000 (from files recovered from Iraqi secret police after the first Gulf War) 3. 1991 Gulf War I started by Saddam (the Invasion of Kuwait) - 75,000 (with some estimates of up to 250,000 Iraqi dead). 4. 1991- failed Shiite rebellion 50,000-200,000 5. 1991-1997, UN Sanction Regime - due to the refusal of Saddam to comply with the UN inspections regime - 1 to 1.5 million dead. re:"These and many other tyrants exist in the world today. But what has been US' response to these tyrants." Tyrants the United States opposed and/or fought: Nazi Germany - responsible for killing maybe 20 million, Facist Japan - responsible for killing around 5 million, North Korea - responsible for killing millions, Southeast Asian Communists (Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia) - responsible for killing millions, Yugoslavia - responsible for Kosovo, and Bosnia, and the deaths of hundreds of thousands, the Taliban - responsible for killing hundreds of thousands, the Soviet Union - responsible for the State murder of 50 to 60 million, and Saddam Hussein's Iraq. re:"Anyway, time will tell whether the Iraq war was a just war or not. And at that time we will not only be in a better position to judge Bush's and Blair's actions, but I would hope that we would stop ridiculing Europe. I am sure we Americans have better things to do than munching French Fries and calling them Freedom Fries instead and then feel good about it. Come on America, you are capable of exhibiting a behavior which is more mature than that." Frankly, I'm a little disappointed in France, Germany and Russia - so quick to judge the actions and motives of the USA. There are cemeteries throughout Western Europe and the Pacific, containing the remains of American soldiers. They were not sent, nor did they die, attempting to colonize Europe or Japan (or in more recent actions in Kosovo, Haiti, Bosnia, Somolia, Afghanistan or Lebanon). I think it is a little presumptuous, that anyone should think that, this is what the USA seeks to do now (in the Iraq). Then again, if they could, maybe that's what a European would do.