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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (106342)	7/18/2003 8:03:03 PM
From: marcos	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

There were alternatives with Japan, absent the atomic bomb .... getting further up the Ryukyus [sp?], or just using Iwo Jima and Guam as airbases, keep them blockaded, keep pasting their cities .... which was pretty effective in that short time - far more were killed from 'conventional' firebombing than from the two atomic bombs .... there did not have to be an immediate invasion of the home islands There were alternatives with Iraq .... getting together a genuine coalition of democracies, facing down the Hussein regime with far less bloodshed, with some legitimacy to help counter the inevitable mistakes, and help shoulder the subsequent responsibility

To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (106342)	7/18/2003 11:27:02 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

The Myth that Japan still could, in August 1945, inflict vast destruction on the U.S., is just as absurd as the Cold War Missile Gap Who was discussing Japan inflicting vast destruction on the US???? The only destruction that would have been rendered was upon those US forces being sent to invade the islands. The only way Japan could reach the US was via sub-planes, and balloon bombs, neither of which were very effective. But nice try at attempting to weasel your way out of being wrong about Japan's readiness to massively defend its home islands... The facts speak for themselves, namely the quantities of armaments the Americans discovered well above what they had expected to find. Let's go back to the original message that carried us down this "yellow brick road" that you seeming walk upon, lost in your fantasies. The discussion was centering around the ability of turning states with no previous democratic experience into democracies. I said Japan and Germany were proof that it could be done, and you launched off on some fantasy about Japan being whipped, and Germany having had prior experience with democracy, by way of the Weimar Republic. Message 19118156 Japan was a Feudal society all the way up through WWII. A rapidly modernizing feudal society, but certainly not democratic, nor with any history of being so. Yet they are a democracy now, all within the space of 50 years (and really only 10-15) Germany was quite similiar in that, with the short exception of the Weimar Republic, Germany had NEVER been a democracy. Yet it is a democracy now. The USSR was totalitarian 13 years ago. While certainly not a full-fledged democracy, we're seeing Russian leaders being held accountable for their policies, and being forced to win public support. Were Iraq to accomplish only that in my lifetime, it would be a major step forward. All of these societies were able to absorb and integrate democratic values within their societies. I believe there is no compelling reason to believe that Iraqis can't prove equally as capable of adopting democracy. Unless, that is, you believe there is some ethno-religious handicap that renders them incaple of such forms of government.. Do you think Arabs are incapable of democracy Jacob?? Hawk