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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Eashoa' M'sheekha who wrote (106401)	7/19/2003 5:35:12 AM
From: Eashoa' M'sheekha	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Second Bush statement on Iraq debunked Associated Press A key Iraqi scientist recently told the CIA high-strength aluminum tubes bought by Iraq weren't meant for nuclear bomb production, as U.S. President George W. Bush suggested in his State of the Union address, two experts on Iraq's nuclear program said. Mahdi Shukur Obeidi, who headed a uranium-enrichment unit vital to Iraq's pre-1991 bomb plans, "also said that since '91 they hadn't resurrected a nuclear weapon program," said former weapons inspector David Albright, a U.S. physicist who acted as go-between for Obeidi to talk with U.S. authorities a few weeks ago. The assertion Iraq had revived its nuclear project was central to the Bush administration's call for war early this year. On March 16, three days before the U.S.-British invasion, U.S. Vice-President Dick Cheney said Iraq was "trying once again to produce nuclear weapons" and even that Iraq had "reconstituted nuclear weapons." Jacques Baute, chief UN nuclear inspector for Iraq, said he also had learned, from a trusted source, of Obeidi's statements about the tubes and program status. The Iraqi was in a position to know, Mr. Baute said. "He should have been aware if something had happened," the inspector said of claims Iraq had revived its bomb-building. Mr. Baute, head of the Iraq Nuclear Verification Office of the International Atomic Energy Agency, was interviewed at IAEA headquarters in Vienna. Mr. Obeidi, now in Kuwait, made headlines last month when he dug up enrichment-centrifuge parts and documents he had buried in his Baghdad backyard, and gave them to the Americans. In CIA interviews, he said he hid them on orders from Iraqi leaders in 1991, during the Persian Gulf War, for eventual use in rebuilding the bomb program, which was dismantled by UN inspectors after the 1991 conflict. The White House said last month Mr. Obeidi's account was evidence of the ousted Iraqi government's bomb ambitions. But U.S. officials did not, at the same time, report the scientist had contradicted assertions the program had already been revived and the tubes were part of it. Asked Thursday in Washington about Mr. Obeidi's reported statements, a CIA spokesman declined comment. In his State of the Union address Jan. 28, Mr. Bush offered two pieces of purported evidence that Iraq was resuming nuclear weapons work. The first, alleging Iraq had secretly tried to buy uranium from an African state, was later discredited when Mr. Baute's team found such claims were based on forged documents of undisclosed origin. Bush administration officials now contend other, unspecified evidence supports that allegation but they have not produced such evidence. The second element in the Bush speech was the tubes. "Our intelligence sources tell us that [Iraqi President Saddam Hussein] has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production," Mr. Bush said. Spinning cylinders made of aluminum can be used for inferior models of enrichment centrifuges, which separate out bomb uranium. The Iraqi government told IAEA inspectors it was buying the aluminum tubes to make small artillery rockets. The IAEA then assembled centrifuge experts to consider the question and on March 7, IAEA chief Mohamed ElBaradei told the UN Security Council documentary and other evidence strongly supported the Iraqi version. Even earlier, before Bush's speech, Mr. ElBaradei had raised serious doubts about the tubes allegation. Neither the U.S. military since March nor UN inspectors earlier found any signs of a revived Iraqi nuclear bomb program

To: Eashoa' M'sheekha who wrote (106401)	7/19/2003 10:00:44 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Respond to of 281500

Naw...It's called Bullshit Hawk. If it were called freedom , China would be next on the list of " Places That Need Democracy ". Geez.. you act like there hasn't been any change in China... Sure, China needs democracy, but it's better that this form of government derives from the bottom up.... Had there been no positive change in China over the past couple of years, I would agree that more proactive steps might be required to initiate that change (covert actions.. etc) and unlock the grip that the priviledged elite have on that society. But China is very similiar, in a sweeping manner, to events currently taking place in Iran. Young people seeking greater economic and political opportunity, neither of which the elite can easily give up without risking their own position of privilege. The hypocrisy sees no boundaries, Hawk. Why should that surprise you?? After all, isn't it true that no government is monolothic? All governments are the sum of their parts (their leadership, constituents, and/or subjects, and protectors), IOW. self-interested human beings.. And Human Beings are, by nature, hypocritical, when it comes to their own self-interest. But the self-interest of the overall population, and growing unwillingness to believe the lies and propaganda of their leadership will inevitably advance THEIR self-interests over those of the elite few. And democracy, properly structured with checks and balances to prevent centralization of governmental power, is the means by which self-interest of the governed is realized. Hawk