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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: michael97123 who wrote (106477)	7/19/2003 3:50:26 PM
From: marcos	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

'We exercised great patience in vietnam and got burned.' Oh man michael, that is a rich one, hoo-hah, i could type a book ... but no time, got to drive folks around .... briefly - if you'd listened to your own major Archimedes Patti instead of the impatient arrogant dickhead de Gaulle who insisted on french re-colonisation, you would indeed have exercised patience, and not gotten burnt It wasn't patience that burned you in Viet Nam, it was the lack of it .... just look at them now that you've left them alone, they are coming along, slow maybe for sure by norteamericano standards, but in their own good time, they way they like to do ..... they fought the chinese for a thousand years, then the french, then the japanese, then the french again, then the 'french with money' [which is what they called US nationals] .... aw c'mon michael, geez ... well, later, cháu

To: michael97123 who wrote (106477)	7/19/2003 10:26:32 PM
From: marcos	Respond to of 281500

michael, you had several points in this post but before i was short of time, addressed only one, the 'patience' thing in re Viet Nam ..... which i could really get wound up on, by the way - Truman's stiffing of Ho's pleading in 1945, his failure to listen to the right advisors like your major Patti who had fought beside the viet minh general Giap and who understood the intense nationalism of the people and their harmlessness to anyone else, then Eisenhauer's perfidy in not permitting the promised elections of 1956, then on and on, ad nauseam, all failures to understand what was happening, combined with a grossly negligent impatience Very well then, let us apply this lesson to your points in the present case with Iraq - Were i foreign ministre of Canada i would say to your neocons now, alright you want us to help you out of this, we are ready aye ready, we will do all we are able, as soon as you have fulfilled the following conditions - 1. you must apologise in plain terms for the way you have let your juvenile impatience destroy international cooperation with the independent democracies 2. you must demonstrate a clear and sustained interest in genuine international cooperation with the independent democracies 3. we will take no more of this Herrenvolk shit out of your PNAC bunch, so go find somebody from the responsible side of your populace to send to the table, or don't bother showing up ... that's it ... then we would suggest that the UN be renewed, or a new organisation take its place, whatever works ... it's a nice name, 'United Nations', lots of brand loyalty in the trademark, let's fix it eh I doubt very much that your current crop of rulers is capable of coming to their senses in this manner, but i would love them to prove me wrong .... in any case, whoever we eventually find in the US capable of actual dialogue will get the support of canadians, and we know they'll get the support of the irish and kiwis and indians, the whole bunch, because these are all our friends too, they are very much with you and not against you, no matter what your thug element says, we all stand together against terrorism, be it from bin Laden or from Bush There are many criticisms to be made of each of our nations, with the g.w.n. it is an absurdly low budget for the military, i would personally like to see it tripled .... now we pay less than four hundreds loonies per annum per capita, we should ante up over one thousand ... and keep it a canadian military, subjugated to none, of course .... this is one of several points made by your neocons that we will be more open to discuss when they have gotten over their hubris, and learned to treat the Rest of Us like human beings