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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sully- who wrote (106717)	7/20/2003 9:23:19 PM
From: GST	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Grow up. I quoted Bush. Bush just loves this line "you are either with us or you are against us". Get a life.

To: Sully- who wrote (106717)	7/20/2003 9:49:16 PM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi wstera_02; Re: "Please give me a few examples where he said precisely what you claim it meant & precisely within context of what Bush discussed in that same speech. You claim Bush said it hundreds of times. I'll be shocked if you can provide three or four instances that accurately fit the premise of my previous sentence." Sometimes context makes it clear that Bush is talking about support for fighting against terrorists, but other times he makes it clear that the "with us or against us" comment applies to countries that chose to fight with us in Iraq (i.e. the "coalition"). Here are some examples, with context: I'm asked all the time by people, what can I do to help. You see, as you probably can tell, I don't see many shades of gray in this world. Either you're with us or you're against us. Either you support evil or you support good. This great nation stands on the side of good. And for those who want to help, you can do so by acts of kindness. You can do so by showing compassion for your neighbor. whitehouse.gov I view this as an opportunity to secure the peace for a long time coming. I view this as a struggle of tyranny versus freedom, of evil versus good. And there's no in between, as far as I'm concerned. Either you're with us, or you're against us. Either you stand for a peaceful world for our children and our grandchildren, either you're willing to defend freedom to its core, or you're going to be against the mighty United States of America. whitehouse.gov This next two make it clear that France and Germany, who did not join the coalition, are evil nations, at least in Bush's eyes at that time. It is now clear that the US does not have enough ground combat troops to pacify Iraq. (Where was that lesson about not fighting ground wars in Asia without a local ally to supply the cannon fodder?) So the administration is having to suck up to the French and Germans. But back then, this is what Bush was saying: I told the world that either you're with us or you're against us. (Applause.) And there's no in-between. And most of the world is with us and I'm proud to say our coalition is strong, because people understand the value of freedom -- the freedom to worship the way you like to worship, the freedom to vote, the freedom to express your opinion without fear of reprisal, the freedom to risk capital and realize your entrepreneurial dream. Well, listen, we hold freedom dear and we will defend it at all costs. whitehouse.gov You know, I said early on, I said to the people you're either with us or you're against us. I said either you're standing with the United States of America in our quest and desire to protect freedom, or you're not. There is no middle ground. And I'm proud to report the coalition -- there has been a vast coalition of nations that have joined us, nations of all stripes, all who understand what's at stake. whitehouse.gov This is an example of Bush threatening to enforce his "doctrine": These people are the kind of people that -- they try to find a soft spot around the world and burrow in and plot and plan. And we're just going to have to enforce the doctrine, either you're with us or against us. You join the coalition of freedom, or you're on the other side of the fence. whitehouse.gov First, I mentioned the coalition the Secretary of State's working on. And we sent a clear message: Either you're with us or you're against us. (Applause.) Either you stand for freedom, or you stand with tyranny. And the good news is, many, many, many nations have heard that message. And I'm proud to report they stand squarely with the United States in the defense of freedom. (Applause.) whitehouse.gov This is more along the line of what the President should have been saying: I don't know what they were thinking on September the 11th. They must have taken a look at America and said, all they'll do is sue us. (Laughter.) They were wrong. They were wrong. I said right off the bat, you're either with us or you're against us. I meant every word of what I said. (Applause.) I also said that if you harbor a terrorist, if you hide a terrorist, if you feed a terrorist, you're just as guilty as the murderers who hit New York and Washington, and you will be held accountable. (Applause.) And thanks to a mighty coalition, led by a fantastic United States military, the Taliban found out exactly what I meant. (Applause.) whitehouse.gov There are probably 100 examples. -- Carl

To: Sully- who wrote (106717)	7/20/2003 10:04:34 PM
From: GST	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Wrong. See the attached quotes. "You see, as you probably can tell, I don't see many shades of gray in this world. Either you're with us or you're against us. Either you support evil or you support good." whitehouse.gov "I told the world that either you're with us or you're against us. (Applause.) And there's no in-between." whitehouse.gov "Either you're with us, or you're against us. Either you stand for a peaceful world for our children and our grandchildren, either you're willing to defend freedom to its core, or you're going to be against the mighty United States of America." whitehouse.gov The other doctrine is, is that either you're with us and those of us who love freedom, or you're with the enemy whitehouse.gov ______________________________________________ I could go on and on and on and on, because he uses it in speech after speech after speech. It is a favorite expression of George Bush.