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Politics : Support the French! Viva Democracy! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: E. T. who wrote (2047)	7/21/2003 12:46:41 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 7834

You realize you are averaging deaths attributable to the time of the Iran/Iraq war to get that figure. Not very honest, imo. And if you are using some other method ti calculate your death rate- please share it. Be specific.

To: E. T. who wrote (2047)	7/21/2003 7:02:25 PM
From: zonder	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 7834

(1) Most of those killings took place years ago. There was no slaughter going on until US/UK forces kille 6,000 Iraqis in this invasion (2) Your administration LIED TO YOU. Do you understand that??? (3) I am not against intervening during genocides etc. Iraq was no Auchwitz. It was no Bosnia. You don't have a logical leg to stand on, arguing this invasion was good while it killed 6,000 civilians and who knows how many Iraqi soldiers fighting against foreign invaders (that's your army).

To: E. T. who wrote (2047)	7/21/2003 9:00:06 PM
From: Brumar89	Respond to of 7834

The UN says 300,000 is a conservative estimate of Iraqis killed by the regime. This would not include the deaths in Saddam's wars which would exceed 1,000,000. >>>>> UN envoy opens Baghdad workshop on bringing rights violators to justice 30 June – Noting that at least 300,000 people disappeared in Saddam Hussein's detention centres and torture chambers, United Nations envoy Sergio Vieira de Mello opened a two-day workshop in Baghdad today to discuss with Iraqis, international experts and members of the United States-run interim authority how to attain justice. "Thousands of men, women and children from all walks of life, religions, ethnic groups, political affiliations, classes, and professions were often targeted simply because they disagreed - or were thought to disagree - with those in power," Mr. Vieira de Mello, Secretary-General Kofi Annan's Special Representative, told the meeting, the first national human rights workshop to take place in Baghdad. "They were held in secret detention centres, silenced, tortured, disappeared, raped and killed," he added. "All communities suffered: no one was spared. The only non-discriminatory policy of Saddam was the systematic, across the board violation of human rights. The mass graves that are being unearthed as we speak are a witness to some of the most egregious of violations of our most fundamental right: the right to life." Stressing the overriding importance of the Iraqis themselves deciding how to handle the matter, he said: "I wish us to use this meeting as the first opportunity where we can sit together, and have the Iraqi people lead us in our thinking on comprehensive approaches to address the terrible injustices wrought upon the people of Iraq." "The sheer scale of the problem facing us is daunting," Mr. Vieira de Mello said. "Conservative estimates suggest that the number of missing persons is 300,000. Others talk about much more. So many atrocities were committed." The aim of the workshop "is to arrive at a common understanding of the present challenges we face in addressing this issue and to articulate a common approach in addressing them" from the standpoint of legal, judicial, and forensic capacities, he added. He stressed that the United Nations with its experience of assisting many other states in similar situations was ready to help Iraq. Also today, Mr. Vieira de Mello continued his consultations with all segments of Iraqi society, meeting with Imam Husain Al-Sadr, a religious leader in Baghdad and Mr. Chadirji, leader of the Democratic Union. In his remarks, the Imam expressed his desire to see the UN playing a more active but also practical role both to address the immediate needs of the Iraqi people such as water, electricity, food, radiation and health hazards, as well as assisting the Iraqi people to build the Iraq of the future. UN NEWS SERVICE >>>>> 216.239.53.104 Now that Iraq has a transitional council which has announced it will be prosecuting human rights abuses by the past regime, the UN finally shows up to help. This is all supposed to be dismissed by "SWAVBM" (which means "Saddam was a very bad man" - the abbreviation used to make it possible to avoid actually saying the words). Several things seem to be going the right way in southwest Asia right now. The Palestinians and Israelis are talking about peace (though the obstacles are huge), ditto the Indians and Pakistanis, the fundamentalist govt in Iran seems unstable, and of course, Saddam is out of power.