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Politics : Foreign Policy Discussion Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (5695)	7/24/2003 12:20:54 AM
From: ChinuSFO	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 15991

Hawk, I was born and spent well over a quarter century of my life in the region under discussion. You may have mostly read about it but I lived and experienced it. The Saudi monarchy is very much against the Muslim clergy and their incitement. It does not take a US to push the Saudi royalty in a corner against their clerics/Wahabs. They have always had their dislike for them from day 1. The US should stop taking false credit. Let us not fall for such a propaganda. I for sure am not going to fall for it. Having lived in those areas, allow me to share my thoughts on what I perceive is going to happen. Yes indeed, the Iraqis and even the others in the Arab world will celebrate the news of Uday and Kusai's death (assuming that is true, who knows about US intelligence these days?) However remember that what we see as celebration in the Arab world today should not be viewed as victory for the US. With the common enemy (Uday and Kusai) out of the way, the Muslim fundamentalists (Shiite's in particular) will turn their attention towards the US and "US occupation" of Iraq. And then this will turn out to be another Vietnam. The US wanted to save South Vietnam from communism and it all ended up being communist anyway. Similarly in Iraq, the US wanted it to be saved from a facist dictator in Saddam, it will end up to be a facist dictator anyway, this time it maybe some Shiite cleric. Time alone will tell. My point, Bush should not have gotten us in this mess just for Iraqi oil. Instead he should have relentlessly pursued Osama and his men to wherever he fled, across the border to Pakistan or India or across the ocean to Indonesia or Phillipines. He failed to pursue and capture Osama and his men(remember his rhetoric that "...we are going to smoke them out from their foxholes.... And as face saver he turned the nation's attention away towards Iraq and towards a man "...who tried to assasinate my father...."

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (5695)	7/24/2003 12:33:06 AM
From: Rollcast...	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 15991

Hey Hawk, Noticed how shrill the usual suspects over at FADG have become today? Could they be bothered by the unthinkable - an American success? Very, very sad.

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (5695)	7/24/2003 8:44:08 PM
From: lorne	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 15991

Poll: One-third of Germans believe US may have staged Sept. 11 attacks By Reuters, 7/23/2003 BERLIN -- One-third of Germans under age 30 believe the U.S. government may have sponsored the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington, according to a poll published Wednesday. And about 20 percent of Germans in all age groups hold this view, according to a survey of 1,000 people conducted for the weekly Die Zeit. The poll also said 68 percent of all Germans felt the media had not reported the full truth behind the attacks, in which some 3,000 people were killed when hijacked planes were crashed into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. After the Sept. 11 attacks, there was an outpouring of sympathy from Germans for the United States. Despite misgivings, Germany joined a military campaign against the al Qaeda network that Washington blamed for the attacks. But as the United States geared up for war against Iraq, relations soured as Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder expressed vocal opposition to the plans. Although the United States took offense at Berlin's attitude, Schroeder's anti-war stance was popular in Germany and helped him to snatch victory in last September's elections. Asked whether they believed the U.S. government could have ordered the Sept. 11 attacks, 31 percent of those surveyed under the age of 30 answered "yes," while 19 percent overall gave the same answer. Die Zeit said widespread disbelief about the reasons given by the United States for going to war in Iraq and suspicion about media coverage of the conflict had fostered a climate in which conspiracy theories flourished. "The news is controlled," 17-year-old Kenny Donaubaur was quoted as saying. "You could see that in the Iraq war. It doesn't seem to me that you get the full truth." boston.com