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To: LindyBill who wrote (4076)	7/31/2003 11:13:49 AM
From: John Carragher	Respond to of 793622

"We've had guidance counselors calling on their cellphones from bathrooms saying they've been told to get rid of kids." very strange comment... how does it relate to nyt article.? Do the bathrooms give more credence to the story? Story also points out problems with education system. Again we have teacher's manipulate numbers to show the school as better qualified or meet standards... We should be investigating the educators who are not performing in their job and take disciplinary action. Some kids are not comfortable in school , peer pressure, discipline, etc.. They do better dropping out, getting GED and moving on with their life... I am sure there are making examples of kids with GEDs who have gone on to college, started own businesses etc... Now the real problem is passing them through and giving them a diploma which means nothing.. The industry in Florida said they needed something to judge if a potential new hire could do basic reading , writing , math.. I think as Florida three times to take a basic test and also one year later take same exact test for diploma is not demanding much from the student. If kids will not attend school on a regular bases and only as a place to hang out or meet other kids that is not an education problem.. but it should show in the numbers.

To: LindyBill who wrote (4076)	7/31/2003 11:24:19 AM
From: John Carragher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793622

interesting note on Philadelphia news last night... The public school system has over 3500 applications vs 450 a year ago.. They attribute it to changes in school system.. plus only 150 open jobs or something in that range...

To: LindyBill who wrote (4076)	8/1/2003 12:52:09 AM
From: D. Long	Respond to of 793622

I think a big part of the problem is like you said - we've geared the education system towards everyone going to college. As if everyone wants, needs, or would benefit from going to college. There are vocational high schools, but often they're looked down upon as schools for flunkies and second raters, and don't get the funding and quality teachers. I almost went to my local votech in high school, because I considered taking the drafting course and going to architecture school. Alot of kids have skills and talents that would be better served by placing them in trade schools to develop rather than trying to push college prep down their throat and ending up with a dropout. We still need carpenters, electricians, mechanics, and plumbers. Maybe JJ could comment on Germany's educational system, which has a sensible early college/trade divide. Derek