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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (109580)	8/3/2003 3:22:32 AM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi Nadine Carroll; Re: "You really believe that the Bush administration is so masochistic that they would deliberately make the case on grounds they knew to be false, so they could have an acute political embarrasment on their hands at what should be their moment of triumph? I mean, just think about it." I've thought about it plenty. Bush is an idiot. He may have been misled by a few of the neocons, but the vast majority of the neocons truly believed that (a) Iraq had huge numbers of WMDs that would be easy to find by US soldiers but were too well hidden for the incompetent and corrupt UN inspectors; (b) the Iraqi people would welcome us as liberators; (c) the Iraqi military and police would continue to keep order in the country; (d) Iraqi oil would be easy to produce and would pay for the occupation; (e) the end of the war would see the quick removal of US ground troops; (e) the rest of the world would send troops to relieve our for the peacekeeping; (f) all the nay-sayer countries would fall over themselves trying to get on our good side in order to get a piece of the reconstruction bonanza (paid for by Iraqi oil); etc. Hey, if the Iraq war had gone splendidly, the American public would have forgiven the neocons for lying about the reasons for going in. But the gamble had a downside as well. It's hilarious enough that neocons would be asking for a "bye" on their lies, but in addition, they're assuming that they'll be the ones running the show from here on, LOL. It's as if Chicken Little and The Boy Who Cried Wolf admitted their falsehoods, and now want to be rewarded for getting us (temporarily) stuck in a quagmire. Re: "I suspect the cries of "it's all lies" are going to look somewhat more lame in a month or two." You're on. I'll remind you of your quote three months from now. Of course all you'll do is come up with another excuse. -- Carl

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (109580)	8/3/2003 11:35:40 AM
From: KonKilo	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

You really think they couldn't have made the case on other grounds, such as humanitarian necessity, failure of containment, or breaches of the cease-fire? Using these reasons would have resulted in even less support for the war than they actually garnered. You really believe that the Bush administration is so masochistic that they would deliberately make the case on grounds they knew to be false, so they could have an acute political embarrasment on their hands at what should be their moment of triumph? I believe that they thought they'd at least find a few biological and chemical substances, enough to spin into "we found the WMD", as they actually attempted to do with the two canvas-sided trailers. Given the level of hubris among the top level of the Administration and the extraordinary complicity from the press, I believe the Bushies thought they could say anything and get away with it. After all, it worked exactly like that for two and a half years. Regardless of what Mr. Kay discovers, it is glaringly obvious that the threat was nowhere near as imminent and dire as was hyped by the Admin. Watch as they attempt to change the subject from "imminent threat" to "they had a weapons program". Nadine, you approve of ends justifying means...I don't. That is the crux of our argument and it will not resolve as long as that philosophical gulf exists between us.