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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: epicure who wrote (71532)	8/5/2003 6:42:43 AM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 82486

Trying to say you are not prejudiced, while at the same time posting very prejudiced statements, just makes you look ridiculous. As a function of my lifetime habit of always trying to look at everybody in the most favorable light, <g>, I have come up with an alternate explanation. Please bear with me. It may take me a while to get there. I recognize that Neo has provided ample textbook indicators of prejudice and some that touch on homophobia, but I don't think that's where he's coming from. I think the difference between Neo and us is that he has an overdeveloped/expansive sense of morality and an underdeveloped, or at least differently-developed, sense of justice. I see the realm of morality as small. Neo sees the world in terms of morality (to the point of thinking it immoral not to apologize to someone who feels he has an apology coming (and the audacity (LOL) to call my thinking PC, to boot, but that's neither here nor there)). Neo's moral-centric approach is traditional and thus normal in our culture. I disagree with it and disapprove of it as well, but it's normal. A salient feature of the moral-centric approach is a preoccupation with sex. While you and I would consider sexual acts, per se, outside of the moral realm, traditionalists tend to focus on them. All sorts of sexual activities are considered immoral. As a result, I think the yuck factor is more complicated for them. There is the oyster- or feces-type yuck factor which is a straight forward thing that you or I might experience. And then there's the yuck factor where it merges with an immoral act. I consider it ridiculous to build social policy upon the yuck factor, my simple version of it. But it's legitimate to build policy around immoral acts. We have laws against murder and rape and robbery and other immoral acts. So, if you're coming at things from the premise that certain sexual acts are immoral, it's reasonable to build policy around them, too. It's normal and reasonable in our society to have contempt for perpetrators of immoral acts. I certainly have contempt for terrorists and murders and the like. If you think that certain sex is immoral, as opposed to simply yucky, then you would have contempt for its practitioners, too. And it's normal and reasonable in our society to discriminate against perps. We deny them the full range of rights and privileges of citizenship and we scorn them. Failure to meet moral standards is legitimate basis for discriminating. Justice, in that paradigm, can be viewed as enforcing moral standards. Ergo, there is no injustice in denying marriage to gays. Let me make it clear that I am not supporting that position. I'm just examining the complaint that has been raised in the media, the one addressed by Tim last night, that the debate on this issue is compromised by a priori determinations of bigotry. Certainly there is plenty of bigotry around, but not everything that looks like bigotry is necessarily simple bigotry even though it may quack like bigotry. It may, instead, be a different sense of morality and justice. Still wrongheaded, and perhaps a violation of church/state, IMO, but not necessarily bigotry. Or, of course, it may be bigotry.

To: epicure who wrote (71532)	8/5/2003 7:27:23 AM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

And I think you are a pc ideologue who is incapable of making the effort of seeing another point of view, so it is kind of a wash........