To: The Philosopher who wrote (72205 ) 8/11/2003 11:30:03 AM From: Lane3 Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 82486 You and I just differ, then, in whether we can recover. I take your point about the cyclical nature of things and the rise in Christian fundamentalism. The traditionalist values movement is getting some play and respectability in the mainstream media. I am in favor of any enlightenment that keeps pubescent kids out of the sack. But I don't see that reducing the distance between the horse and the barn by much, though. further, it seems to me, that if the horse is still on the county road, it doesn't matter all that much just where on that road he is. Maybe the divorce rate drops by ten percent. Maybe some more kids are raised by married parents. All that's a good thing, but not paradigm shifting. The people of this country don't have either the will or the tools to restore the horse. What are you going to do about kids born out of wedlock? Deny them entry to school. Put a scarlet letter on them? Force their moms to have abortions before they are born? Are we going to decline the sale of a white wedding dress based on medical exam? Are we going to deny social security benefits to widows living in sin? We're not going to do any of that. I suppose it's possible that we might make divorce more difficult, but that doesn't obviate divorce, it merely enriches those who work through the loopholes and effect the divorce. Even if we reduced divorce, we're not going to require couples registering at motels to produce marriage licenses, marriage to each other, that is. That's a joke. If you can't divorce, you simply cheat and we can't stop that. There are also influences in the opposite direction. As people live longer and grow more, the likelihood of people being soulmates for seventy years, and the attraction to young people of the prospect of seventy years, is reduced. If you think we can get the horse back in the barn, tell me how. If you can't do better than the general cyclical nature of things, then I'm not willing to invest in it. I'd rather invest in something that is based on reality and feasibility. As regards Good Things, it may be a good thing for kids to be raised by married parents of the opposite sex, but it is not a good thing to raise them in a world that fosters prejudice against those who are different or that shoehorns kids into a mold. I'm not willing to risk the latter to get a ten percent improvement in the former. For the whole loaf, maybe, but not for a half-baked cyclical shift.