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To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (12259)	8/11/2003 6:49:49 PM
From: fatty	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 306849

>that means replacing high cost american workers with workers from china and india. Funny thing is that nobody ever thought about replacing fund managers and stock analysts, who as a group is known to perform similarly to throwing darts on a board. Perhaps a snake charmer from India can do the same job! We sure get better entertainment if not winning stocks. :-)

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (12259)	8/11/2003 7:06:48 PM
From: Jim McMannis	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 306849

Courtesy Steve Harris from the Intel thread.... Not bad if you're not an American... cnn.com Intel provides L-1 workers a cost-of-living adjustment if they work at the Santa Clara, California, headquarters or elsewhere in the United States. Intel pays for housing, cars, return trips to the workers' home countries and full medical benefits -- a package that ends up costing significantly more than hiring an American, she said.

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (12259)	8/11/2003 7:15:06 PM
From: MulhollandDrive	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 306849

>>The truth is that Larry Ellison wanted to pay less for engineers in the 90s, he wanted to pay 50K for some skillsets while the market was demanding double that. Since there was pretty much jobs aplenty for everyone<< it could be that a fairly significant number of those jobs which were aplenty as a result of the bubble are never coming back. if you just want to look at it from a simple supply and demand dynamic, the market is no longer "demanding" the engineers that created those salaries. and just for argument's sake...assume the demand is picking up somewhat (though top line growth is still tepid, basically almost flat when you factor in the weaker dollar)....in order to produce at acceptable profit margin, costs continue to need reduction....just now reading that tech profits jumped 21% on only 4% growth, not including the dollar weakness)... with such paltry demand corporations will do what it takes to move product/services, be it productivity gains (fewer people producing more goods/services) or cheaper labor costs incurred by hiring practices which include setting up shop where labor expense is more conducive to the bottom line. the ability to export high tech jobs we are seeing now is no different than the rust belt manufacturing jobs losses in the 70's and 80's....only from what i can see the capital investment to set up shop is even less than that of the manufacturers.. not nearly as much capital expenditure....much more labor intense. some believe the labor situation here will improve the thinking being that productivity improvements actually increases employment...in the past that may have true, but this new incarnation of job exportation (the service economy that everyone thought was "safe") certainly give one cause to wonder. the biggest demand in job growth will be in the "high skill" positions and one has to believe that if an employer hire people to fill the high skill positions and can do it cheaper by either going offshore, it will happen. i believe i read somewhere that domestically we are paying something like 8x the average off shore wage (wages and benefits) put another way i guess you could say you can get 8 foreign workers for the price of 1 here. that represents one heck of a lot of "productivity" gain necessary to justify that one high tech employee. <edit> btw...the unemployment rate as reported right now for college grauates is 3.1%, a ten year high..