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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Bilow who wrote (111220)	8/13/2003 9:19:50 AM
From: Sig	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<<<a) The inability of the Arabs to learn suggests that they will never learn that they have been beaten. In fact, this is the Israeli experience, that the Arabs just keep fighting. Unlike the Germans and Japanese, both very intelligent races, the Arabs are unteachable, so the examples of how the US led Japan and Germany away from their totalitarian ways does not apply to Iraq. Bush's attempt to remake Iraq is hopeless due to the fundamental inability of the Arab people to learn.>>> You can have an interesting discussion if the proper discussee responds. Its not that the Arabs do not have brainpower or neurons. Much of what we learn or what we do with it comes at an early age. If you arrive late for work, you learn the pay is less and the boss doen't like it. Arabs appear to be taught from a very early age, and though religion, that there is an evil enemy out in the world ready to kill them. And that they should get us first. That would change if they visited other nations, or dealt with foreign businessmen Something that most are too poor to do, and most of their parents have never done. Without experience, then the outside world looks confusing , and without being able to communicate because of differing languages, they retreat to the understandable beliefs of elders So they achieve a certain mind set or background, saying dont trust foreigners, they are lying. We are right, they are wrong, And learning stops in the political area, in the fundamental beliefs. Technically, language wise, science wise they can and will continue to learn, if pressured (haha) But if I was in living in 120 degree heat, I would be a bit lazy also, as I grew up in Michigan, where hot is 90. Having American troops in Iraq is forcing people to learn, a painful process regardless of a satisfactory outcome. They will learn that if you launch an RPG against a tank or soldier, you will die, and the people around you may also, and they going to be pissed, and not like you for that. To be continued, the market calls Sig .

To: Bilow who wrote (111220)	8/13/2003 9:29:43 AM
From: michael97123	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

"Again, thanks for breaking the ice with your post. These are important underlying issues that are not recognized in the august pages of Foreign Affairs, but should, since they are so important to international affairs." Carl, How did i know it would be you who would broad brush bushies and neocons and just plain iraq supporters with chuckies racist brush. How did i know that? mike

To: Bilow who wrote (111220)	8/13/2003 12:08:12 PM
From: stockman_scott	Respond to of 281500

Iraqis view U.S. troops as occupiers ________________ BY DREW BROWN Knight Ridder Foreign Service Posted on Sun, Aug. 10, 2003 twincities.com <<...Many Iraqis increasingly view American troops as foreign occupiers. And as attacks against U.S. troops continue, the low-level guerrilla war that American military officials say is being waged by former regime loyalists, foreign terrorists and criminals threatens to escalate into a wider nationalist struggle. "The killing or capture of Saddam Hussein will do nothing," said Mungith Daghir, the vice president of the Iraq Center for Research and Strategic Studies, an analysis group that Baghdad University professors founded after Saddam was ousted from power. Omar Abid al Mugeeth doesn't care whether Saddam is still alive or gone for good. Since U.S. troops liberated the Iraqi capital in April and forced the former dictator into hiding, the 31-year-old moneychanger has been robbed at gunpoint twice, losing thousands of dollars on both occasions. "When the Americans first came, trust in them was 100 percent," Mugeeth said, as he sat with his friends in his cramped, sweltering shop in downtown Baghdad. "But now there is none. There is no security. There is no electricity. There is no water. At least we had these things under Saddam. Before, I hated Saddam. But right now, he is better than the Americans. I swear if I get hurt by the Americans again, I will take up a gun against them myself." Daghir said a poll by his research center found that 32 percent of 1,000 Iraqis surveyed believe that former regime loyalists are behind the attacks, but a sizable 22 percent blame the attacks on American "provocations," including nighttime raids on people's homes, U.S. soldiers searching women and violating other Muslim taboos and the killing of innocent civilians in the ongoing military operations. "We think the American forces … want to believe … that Saddam Hussein is responsible for everything," Daghir said. "But they don't want to admit that they are responsible for some things because of their hasty decisions or the bad advice they've been given." Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, estimated the strength of the guerrilla resistance at 5,000 fighters. "We're fighting a low-intensity conflict that is multifaceted," he said, listing disparate groups including "criminals," Saddam loyalists and "radicals" who oppose the American presence. Sanchez said the use of timed, rocket-propelled grenades, trip wires and packed explosives bore the marks of al-Qaida. He added that Iraq is a magnet for foreign terrorists. U.S. intelligence officials say Syrians, Saudi Arabians, Algerians and even a few Albanians have turned up to battle American troops in Iraq...>>