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To: Les H who wrote (12682)	8/20/2003 11:11:29 AM
From: the_wheel	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 306849

Les : From your article : <Bustamante's proposal, which he dubbed "tough love for California," > Does magner know about this?

To: Les H who wrote (12682)	8/20/2003 12:29:30 PM
From: Jim McMannis	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 306849

RE:"According to Camarota, California's estimated population of more than 35.5 million people includes some 10 million Mexicans, 70 percent of who are in the state illegally and 65 percent of who have less than a high school education. "The idea that Mexican immigration is vital to the U.S. economy is simply false," Camarota said. Next, Camarota noted that Mexican immigrants pay significantly less in taxes compared with native Californians but use disproportionately more welfare benefits than those born in the state. Camarota's data showed that the average taxes paid by Mexican immigrants in California amount to about $1,535 per year, while native-born Californians pay $5,600 in taxes. While Mexican immigrants pay one-third the taxes of native Californians on average, they also consume roughly three times more welfare, Camarota said. The CIS data showed that 41.5 percent of Mexican immigrants used "major welfare programs" like Medicaid and food stamps, while those same welfare programs were used by only 14.2 percent of native Californians." Unreal. No wonder there is a 38 billion dollar deficit. Whos really paying the taxes out there? The old time Californians have it rigged with Prop 13 so they don't pay their fair share and the illegals aren't paying it. No wonder people are leaving. What happens if Bustamante wins?

To: Les H who wrote (12682)	8/20/2003 12:50:36 PM
From: Les H	Respond to of 306849

Rent Control making a comeback in Boston? dollarsandsense.org

To: Les H who wrote (12682)	8/20/2003 6:14:30 PM
From: David Jones	Respond to of 306849

....Illegal immigration turning California into an apartheid state.... cnsnews.com\Nation\archive\200308\NAT20030820a.html Exactly correct on all accounts. The Feds have a big hand in the problems here in Calif with mandates and open door to illegal immigration. ....and also a welfare state.... sacbee.com We can not or should not vote for Bustamante. Just his endorsement form the state employees union should send up red flags aplenty. He's not taking on the true problems with the budget but playing typical Calif politics. Pandering and promising.

To: Les H who wrote (12682)	8/20/2003 6:17:59 PM
From: Joe Smith	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 306849

That was very fragmentary data on illegal immigrants. Of course, they pay less taxes, they are paid very little. As far as how much services they use, welfare is a very small part of the picture. Do illegals really require more services than the average Californian? Do they need more money spent on roads in their rural areas? I doubt it? Is the state spending more money per student on their kids? I doubt it? What about fire, police etc? This is where the real money goes. It is ridiculous to focus on just one small piece of the government pie to make the point that somehow immigrants require more government spending. IF we had no illegals, what would the affect on consumer prices be? What would this "tax" amount to. I do not necessarily disagree that this is not the right way to run things. I just thnk that the arguments made here were ridiculous, specious, and unproductive. We need to focus on getting immigrants who are already here integrated into our society as productive members, just as many of our Grandparents were. And we need to focus on controlling our borders. But, to demonize people who are our neighbors, whose kids go to school with our kids seems a poor approach to me.