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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: The Philosopher who wrote (72678)	8/20/2003 6:16:36 PM
From: average joe	Respond to of 82486

More ideas on population control a'la Skinner. If you wonder what motives could bring Mr. Skinner to his theories, what frustration could lead him to so profound a hatred of mankind, and who would be his first victims, the Time story offers three passages that provide eloquent clues. The first is a quotation from Mr. Skinner's novel Walden Two. The speaker, Time explains, "is T. E. Frazier, a character in Walden Two and the fictional founder of the utopian community described in that novel. He is also an alter ego of the author . . . " The quotation: "I've had only one idea in my life - a true idee fixe. To put it as bluntly as possible - the idea of having my own way. 'Control!' expresses it. The control of human behavior. In my early experimental days it was a frenzied, selfish desire to dominate. I remember the rage I used to feel when a prediction went awry. I could have shouted at the subjects of my experiments, 'Behave, damn you! Behave as you ought!" The second passage deals with Mr. Skinner's youth. In his college days, he wrote short stories and "sent three of them to Robert Frost, who praised them warmly. That encouragement convinced Fred Skinner that he should become a writer. The decision, he says, was 'disastrous.' . . . In his own words, he 'failed as a writer' because he 'had nothing important to say.' " The third passage is about Twin Oaks, a real-life commune founded on a farm in Virginia, and "governed by Skinner's laws of social engineering." "Private property is forbidden, except for such things as books and clothing . . . No one is allowed to boast of individual accomplishments . . . What is considered appropriate behavior - cooperating, showing affection, turning the other cheek and working diligently - is, on the other hand, applauded, or 'reinforced,' by the group." "The favorite sports are 'cooperation volleyball' and skinny-dipping in the South Anna River - false modesty is another of the sins that are not reinforced - and there is plenty of folk singing and dancing." In regard to the consequences: "After starting with only $35,000, Twin Oaks, four years later, still finds survival a struggle. The farm brings more emotional than monetary rewards; members would find it cheaper to work at other jobs and buy their food at the market . . . Beyond economics, there are serious psychological problems at Twin Oaks, and few members have stayed very long. [Emotional rewards?] Turnover last year was close to 70 percent. The ones who leave first, in fact, are often the most competent members, who still expect special recognition for their talents. 'Competent people are hard to get along with,' says Richard Stutsman, one of Twin Oaks' trained psychologists. 'They tend to make demands, not requests. We cannot afford to reinforce ultimatum behavior, although we recognize our need for their competence . . .' When they leave, the community not only loses their skills but also sacrifices a potential rise in its standard of living." sntp.net

To: The Philosopher who wrote (72678)	8/20/2003 6:23:09 PM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

But other children have, I think, the right to response with taunting and names as well as with refusal to play with the child, so that the child will learn that there is a peer group social cost, as well as an adult social cost, to such behavior. I agree with the value of exercising peer pressure on the child. But taunting is not the right way to go about it. Refusing to play with the child until the child eschews cheating works for me. Name-calling, even something as tame as "cheater" or "liar," can become a habit leading to some of the uncivil and non-constructive behavior we see in society, perhaps eventually to violence. I imagine many of the jerks on SI started out yelling "pants on fire." Sorry, but I don't think good parents condone taunting, they teach constructive ways to problem solve.