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Politics : Stop the War! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: SirVinny who wrote (21069)8/24/2003 7:31:37 AM
From: lorne  Respond to of 21614
 
Vinny. You said...." Lorne, I hope you appreciate the fact that we are very likely on the same side on this issue."....

If the issue you refer to and agree that islam/radical is a problem for all free people then yes we may be on the same side.

But where we differ is in how we deal with this world wide threat.

You said...." Reality is that our lives here in North America and Europe are endangered by ancient thinking fanatics in the Middle East, from both sides. I do not think it is worth risking OUR lives for an argument which is as ludicrous as which came first, chicken or egg. By getting involved in this argument and choosing sides over this nonsense we must now live in fear every day of our lives.".....

What do you refer to when you say " from both sides "?

You said...." By getting involved in this argument and choosing sides over this nonsense we must now live in fear every day of our lives.".....

We the so called free West world have been forced to be involved there is really no choice but to totally defeat radical islam. We have been attacked all over the world by radical islam for years and for the most part we tried to cover it up or just plain ran away or ignored the problem. This kind passive behaviour on our part only encouraged islam to greater and greater atrocities until we arrive at Sept.11

Prez. Bush may not be the best speaker or the sharpest president that the USA has ever had but we better all be thankful that it was he in power at the Sept. 11 attacks and not someone who would try negotiate a peaceful solution with radical muslim terrorists. I believe he was absolutely correct in taking the battle against islam to their land rather than have these crazies killing people over here. islam started this war and now the free citizens of the world MUST finish it with the total defeat of radical islam.

You said...." I, for one, want no part in their hatred for one another. I do not wish to choose sides. I won't allow them to draw me into their war."....

Vinny. IMO there is no choice, no one can sit on the fence in this one. And everyone must choose sides and you have already been drawn into their war....that's the very reason you are posting messages here right now, you are involved.

You said...." we must now live in fear every day of our lives.".....

I wonder what the fear is like for people in countries ruled by islam nut bars, where kids are used as weapons, where women are property and not allowed an education where free speech is non existent where death is only a mullahs pleasure away. I think that fear is a great motivator for us. Seems that as long as the death of our citizens and soldiers was a long ways away in another country we could ignore the fear but Sept.11 has changed that.

You said...." It hurts to see innocent people getting killed. Indeed, it hurts me very much.'....

Yes it does and not just the innocent people in our countries, there are also innocent people in countries controlled by muslim nutbars...should they be granted any help to be free? Do they even know they are not free? do they even deserve freedom?

You said...." They will never stop until the other group is annihilated. ".....

Agreed. and we are the other group.

You said...." Maybe when they spill enough of their children's blood they will realize that this is a game of tic-tac-toe, where there will never be a true winner."....

They use their children as expendable weapons, and there absolutely MUST be a winner and it better be us cuz I won't like praying 5 times a day.



To: SirVinny who wrote (21069)8/24/2003 12:40:37 PM
From: lorne  Respond to of 21614
 
DAY OF INFAMY 2001
Group celebrates 'Magnificent 19' hijackers
British Islamists bent on global conquest plan 9-11 conference
August 23, 2003

A group operating openly in Britain that regards itself as a front line for global Islamic conquest, is planning a conference to celebrate the anniversary of America's "comeuppance" on Sept. 11, 2001.

Two years after the attacks on New York and the Pentagon, "Muslims worldwide will again be watching replays of the collapse of the Twin Towers, praying to Allah … to grant those magnificent 19 Paradise," says the group, Al-Muhajiroun, on its English-language website.

Poster for 2003 conference

Al-Muhajiroun was founded in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia in 1983 by a Syrian cleric, Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammed, who was expelled from Saudi Arabia and has lived in London since 1986 despite an unsuccessful appeal for asylum.

The group fashions itself in the UK as a pressure group seeking to uphold the rights of Muslim citizens. But its website clearly details its stated aim to re-establish the "Khilafa," or world Islamic state, which it contends was destroyed by imperialist Europe.

A terrorist who blew himself up in Tel Aviv on April 29, Asif Hanif, and his accomplice, Omar Khan Sharif, had ties to Al-Muhajiroun, according to British authorities.

Al-Mujahiroun's British leader, Anjem Choudary, has claimed the organization has a worldwide following, with 30 offices across Britain and others in Pakistan, Kuwait, France, South Africa, Lebanon, Bangladesh, Mauritius, Saudi Arabia, Syria and Algeria, according to the London Telegraph.

Shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks, Choudary said Al-Muhajiroun represented a much more mainstream Muslim agenda than admitted by other Islamic groups in the country.

"It is they who are sold out and secular. We are the ones who have not compromised our Islamic faith," he said, according to the Telegraph.

In its press release about the upcoming Sept. 11 conference, the group said Muslims worldwide will be praying "for the reverberations" of 9-11 "to continue until the eradication of all man-made law and the implementation of divine law in the form of the Khilafah -- carrying the message of Islam to the world and striving for Izhar ud-Deen, i.e. the total domination of the world by Islam."

Poster for 2002 conference

Al-Muhajiroun held a similar meeting of clerics Sept. 11, 2002 at Finsbury Park mosque in north London, where they launched the Islamic Council of Britain, which seeks to implement Shariah, or Islamic law in the UK.

Mohammed, who has been investigated by Scotland Yard's anti-terrorist squad for anti-semitic statements, said at the time, "The people at this conference look at September 11 like a battle, as a great achievement by the mujahideen against the evil superpower."

The group said Muslims will celebrate Sept. 11 this year, rejoicing the U.S. got its "comeuppance for atrocities" it has committed, "and indeed continues to commit, against Muslims."

Afghanistan and Iraq are the most recent examples, the statement said.

"With thousands of innocent Muslims still in captivity under barbaric conditions in Guantanamo Bay, the U.S. inquisition against Islam and Muslims shows no signs of subsiding," the group said. "In contrast, the operations being carried out by the Mujahideen against the occupiers in Iraq, Palestine, Chechnya and in Afghanistan have also been stepped up to meet the menace led by the U.S. and UK regimes."

The organization said since Sept. 11, 2001, Muslims have noted the "objective of living under the Shariah and ridding all Muslim land not only of the occupiers, but also the dictatorial regimes and the secularists, has gained massive momentum. From Indonesia and Malaysia to Yemen and Nigeria, the call for the return of the Khilafah system, of ruling solely by the Shariah, can be heard."

Al-Muhajroun said, "The hatred towards the U.S. and UK, and their evil plans to crush Islam and Muslims, and to force a washed-down version of Islam on Muslims, similar to Christianity, has backfired, and instead, more and more Muslims are queuing up to fight Jihad and are willing to die to see the domination of divine law over man made law."

"The willingness to die," the group said, "can be seen in the face of those like Imam Samudra, who was recently given the death penalty for his involvement in the Bali bombings, and yet, when the verdict was handed out, he celebrated his upcoming martyrdom (insha'allah) in the way of Allah."

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