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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: quehubo who wrote (112834)	8/26/2003 5:13:37 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

< As you can see the beacon of hope developing in Iraq is attracting the areas terrorists who are extremely threatened by the changes in Iraq. Better they are attracted to the light in Iraq and zapped then to have them wandering free to target the provider of the light. Progress towards these objectives is not measured in weeks, but maybe quarters. > Que, Iraqis and those attacking the USA, British and UN are not rats [as per Jacob's analogy] nor flies to be zapped [or whatever you mean by zapped]. Actually, they seem to be doing quite a bit of the zapping themselves and quite successfully. They zapped a couple of buildings in Noo Yawk, dug a hole in the Pentagon, the Cole, a couple of embassies and stuff. You had better think not in days, or weeks or quarters. Your opposition is thinking in metaphysical terms. That implies something like a thousand years. Since their breeding rate is quite high [a lot higher than the average Yanks], they likely have the numbers on their side, assuming they can hold their metaphysical culture intact. They seem to be a step ahead of you though because you define the conflict as being against terrorism. They define it in terms of Jihad. They see you as waging a Christian crusade against Islam. You probably are but don't yet know it. They are ahead of you on that. You don't even know what fight you are in yet. You had better think a longgggg time further ahead than a few quarters. Try years and decades and possibly centuries, though I doubt that. Paradigm shift happens and it'll happen to Islamic Jihad too. But Osama is probably right and the USA won't have the attention span and a paradigm shift will happen at the next election. You are in a battle of hearts and minds and unfortunately for you, most of your weapons are useless in that fight. Your noocular armed and propelled submarines can't even see what's going on behind a wall in downtown Baghdad, let alone do anything about it. USS Raygun has got really fast aircraft with big bombs and little bombs too, but they can't do much. Neither can a Predator drone see a guy with a handgun who is prepared to die for his superstitious beliefs and tribal affiliations. Mqurice

To: quehubo who wrote (112834)	8/26/2003 10:14:38 PM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi quehubo; Re: "The revolution in Iran did have an effect on oil production, but there is little reason to think that it had a bigger impact long term on Iranian production than a war that lasted 8 years if I recall correctly." My links proved that Iranian oil production was dropping *before* the war with Iraq. Re: "So my opinion is that Saddam has been a big impact on Iranian production since invading Iran." So? Re: "I dont know why you would be laughing if you think Iraq is going to be a long term quagmire." I'm laughing at your attempt to avoid my question. Let me repeat the exchange to you: Bilow, August 25, 2003 Iraq oil production is down from prewar right now. Are you saying that it will be higher than prewar, say a year after the invasion? #reply-19243527 quehubo, in reply I am saying that now is not important but what Iraq is doing 3-5 and 7-10 years from now is very important. #reply-19243595 In other words, you're not even sure enough about the progress of the occupation to make a statement that Iraq's oil production will be higher by a year after the war began. I'd say that you're slowly succumbing to the realization that Iraq is a f'ing quagmire. What's funny is that you're still dancing around the issue by talking about the distant future. Re: "As you can see the beacon of hope developing in Iraq is attracting the areas terrorists who are extremely threatened* by the changes in Iraq.*" I love how when humans get themselves into losing fights, they begin going on and on with bullshit along the line of "if you think I look bad, you should have seen the other guy". The facts are that the terrorists have had a wide, well armed and friendly territory opened up to them by Bush's war, and they're taking advantage of it as well as they can. Our president walks in fear of his reelect numbers, but all his minions can talk about is how "afraid" the terrorists are, now that we "have them on the run". I read the papers, and the terrorists aren't running. -- Carl