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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neocon who wrote (73596)	8/28/2003 5:28:17 PM
From: Solon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

As to keeping the bar high, I have not expressed any disagreement on this. I think the bar is naturally high because truth inherently benefits and regards the nature of homo sapiens, and the social manner in which we live and work in groups. I merely pointed out that there is no inherent moral value in truth or lies independent of the value which the lie or truth is meant to honour. We have already agreed that there is a general benefit to truth much of the time. "If it is alright to adapt one's testimony to one's needs, one's word is not worth a damn" That is a gross generalization. There are certainly many circumstances in which one's word is worth plenty such as when one has a need to shelter their child from a police frame-up over drugs. "If one's word is not worth a damn, then one is a parasite upon society" This does not follow either. Such a person might contribute a great deal to society in spite of having one or more failings. People with all sorts of handicaps and shortcomings make valuable contributions to society. The truth can be contemptible and lies can be contemptible, but I would not prejudge either but would need to know what value was being honored or dishonored in each respective instance. We have agreed that truth is a default position due to its apparent congruence with healthy and productive relationships and social interactions. I think we also agree that some lies are indeed immoral and harmful and that some truths are likewise contemptible. What we perhaps disagree on is whether or not one is entitled to prejudge the moral nature of a lie/truth independent of the circumstances which attend it. A courtroom is full of liars each and every day else they would be saying the same things and asserting the same things which they are not. Truth has a general social advantage within groups although between groups (such as gangs) or social castes/classes the lie is often nearer the default position. Some of the greatest liars in the world are among the most honored by society. We honour the work of undercover cops who sometimes lie 24x7. We honour them because there is nothing inherently immmoral about a lie. It is moral or immoral by virtue of the value which it intends to honour or dishonour. Message 19254619