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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (113956)	9/4/2003 7:54:07 PM
From: Rascal	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hawkmoon, Whats the talk like in your "community" about Bush going to the UN? Rascal @WansttoKnow.com

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (113956)	9/5/2003 8:55:41 PM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi Hawkmoon; Re: "Such as? What was the exit plan when we defeated Japan and Germany? We still have forces there.. And the exit plan for Korea? We still have forces there." These were (a) conflicts against very easy to locate enemy governments, rather than almost impossible to find collections of criminals, and (b) these conflicts were thrust upon us. We did not decide to attack Japan or Germany, they attacked or declared war on us. Same with Korea, it was the North Koreans that came over the border. By contrast the Iraq war, by Bush's own admission, was a "preemptive" war. Iraq had not attacked us. Just like we hadn't attacked Japan when they attacked us back in 1941. The day that we unashamedly called the "day that will live in infamy". -- Carl

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (113956)	9/5/2003 8:57:24 PM
From: Bilow	Respond to of 281500

Hi Hawkmoon; Re: "Deny your enemy safe sanctuaries from which to resupply, regroup, and rearm." Too bad that Iraq already was so awash in weapons that they didn't need to import any. And too bad that Bush hasn't done a damn thing to stop volunteers from streaming across the borders with Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria or Iran. -- Carl

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (113956)	9/6/2003 10:51:30 AM
From: Sam	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

Hawk, One important problem with your (and the WH's) pretty constant analogy of this war to WWII (aside from the obvious ones like territorial, governmental, etc.) is that the allies in WWII were willing to use any and everything--right up to scorched earth tactics. It was do or die. If we would have had to destroy every city in Japan in order to win, we would have. Ditto for Germany. We can't do that here. You and others are making the error of identifying Saddam with the war on terror. These are two different wars. And by taking Saddam out, the US has unwittingly aided our enemies in the war on terror. We have provided a nice recruiting poster. We have eliminated one of its own mortal enemies, an enemy in fact who spoke its own language and understood its culture better than we do. We have also managed in our wonderful wisdom to put Iraq into play; now Iraq is a possible staging ground for their games. At the very least it is a training ground for them to see what works and what doesn't. If the UN doesn't bail us out at some point, we will be in deep trouble. If the UN does come to bail us out, we will still be in trouble. But will have a whipping boy to share the trouble with. Not only that, the Bush admin will have someone else to blame for the trouble. If things go badly, they will blame the UN. If they go well, they will take credit for their wonderful leadership. This administration is brilliant at avoiding taking responsibility for their actions.