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To: longnshort who wrote (13877)	9/8/2003 11:58:50 PM
From: WhatsUpWithThat	Respond to of 48461

> This was a planned, gradual process Now, they've gotta just hate it that someone has noticed! You've blown the whole thing, man, blown like 70 years of devious, backroom planning. Nobody'd said word one till you went and opened your mouth, and now they've gotta start all over again, which has gotta be a serious drag. I can just see them all cursing you in Esperanto! There is no more a left wing than a right wing conspiracy. What you quote is simply people towards one end of the contiuum speaking about not secret plans to brainwash but simply what they perceive as fact: that America will move gradually to Socialism. Personally, I don't see it happening, but the mere fact they do, and that they want to achieve it, makes them no more evil than those who think Adam Smith the be-all and end-all of a proper social order and work to promulgate an uber-Capitalism. Me, I'm big on a mix of both ends, I think it's healthy to have debate, and fluxes of different ideas, trials to see what seems to work where and when. The only thing that truly worries me is someone on one extreme or the other. Better to work positively for the world you desire than to worry about secret cabals and conspiracies. Regards WUWT

To: longnshort who wrote (13877)	9/9/2003 1:21:05 AM
From: Catfish	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 48461

longnshort, Check out this web site: dsausa.org This is for the Democratic Socialists of America or DSA. They do not hide their socialism, but they will never call themselves "socialists" since this term is not viewed favorably by most Americans. Instead, they will refer to themselves as "progressives". Some of their members are elected officials such as senators and congressmen. For instance, Governor Gray Davis recently referred to himself as a "progressive". Members include such people as Henry Waxman, Maxine Waters, and Cynthia McKinney.

To: longnshort who wrote (13877)	9/10/2003 10:57:50 AM
From: Bucky Katt	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 48461

A wealth of opinions> President Bush shouldn't have any trouble getting his $87 billion budget for Iraq and Afghanistan - based on our informal poll of a yacht stocked with Republicans. "It's a nice down payment," former presidential candidate Steve Forbes quipped Monday night on the Highlander. Steve and his brothers, Kip and Tim, had bagpipers beckon an assortment of media and business people aboard their family's 151-foot Capitalist Tool. Rance Crain, founder of the Crain media empire, agreed that Bush's invoice is "cheap at half the price. It's a great price to pay for democracy in the region." "We have no choice," said telecom magnate Peter Lofton. "And as Americans, it's important to back the President right now." Foreign Affairs editor Jim Hoge said, "I don't object to the amount of money. I object to the fact that [the government] didn't have a plan to rebuild in place, almost willfully so." nydailynews.com _____________________________________________________ On that note> "Liberals feel unworthy of their possessions. Conservatives feel they deserve everything they've stolen." Mort Sahl

To: longnshort who wrote (13877)	9/13/2003 1:49:06 PM
From: Bucky Katt	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 48461

OT-OT-OT, but important!> Funeral for 10 Iraqi Police Officers Draws Angry Crowd By ALEX BERENSON ALLUJA, Iraq, Sept. 13 — Ten Iraqi security officers were buried here in ceremonies today that were marked by violence. Two more police officers died today of their wounds from the firefight, an early morning skirmish outside a hospital near Falluja, bringing the death toll to 11 — 10 officers and a Jordanian hospital worker. All 10 officers were buried today, following an Islamic custom that the dead should be buried as quickly as possible. In a chaotic mass funeral at a mosque on Falluja's main road, a crowd of mourners laid to rest seven officers while firing Kalashnikov assault rifles into the air, the crowd chanted anti-American slogans and warnings. The crowd consisted entirely of men, and most mourners seemed to have a weapon. "Hot, hot or else the blood will run cold," mourners shouted, warning that American troops will soon face revenge attacks. "Where will the wanted go from us?" Two masked men holding rocket-propelled grenades jumped on a motorcycle while threatening an imminent attack on American soldiers. As photographers and television cameramen followed, the mourners surrounded and attacked them, injuring at least two cameramen. American soldiers were nowhere in sight, aside from two helicopters cruising slowly at least a mile to the north. Today, Reuters reported, the United States military apologized for what it called the "unfortunate incident" in this town west of Baghdad where relations between the Americans and Iraqis have remained tense. "We wish to express our deepest regrets to the families who have lost loved ones," Lt. Col. George Krivo, a military spokesman, said in Baghdad. Sunni Muslim clerics in the town issued a "declaration by the people of Falluja" condemning the deaths, announcing three days of mourning, and calling for a general strike on Sunday, Reuters reported. Witnesses said a joint patrol of local police officers and an American-trained security force were chasing thieves in a car shortly after midnight on Friday when United States soldiers opened fire on them, in a conflict that did not end for an hour. The statement today by the United States said that its soldiers were responding to an initial attack when the guards were caught in confused fighting that lasted for three hours. Falluja is part of the so-called Sunni triangle in central Iraq, the stronghold of the minority Sunni Muslims who dominated Saddam Hussein's government and the area where the support for Mr. Hussein remains strongest. Jordanian newspapers said that Secretary of State Colin L. Powell telephoned his Jordanian counterpart, Marwan al-Muasher, to "express regret" over the hospital guard's death. Mr. Powell was heading for Kuwait and Iraq today after talks today in Geneva on Iraq's future. Falluja residents were also mourning the death of a 3-year-old girl who witnesses said had been shot in the head by American soldiers during street fighting late Friday. The town has been a cauldron of hostility toward American forces, particularly since troops shot dead at least 13 Iraqis, who were said by local residents to have been unarmed, during a march in late April. There were chaotic scenes today at Falluja's main mosque, where several hundred people carrying an Iraqi flag gathered to pray over the coffins and protest against the American military, Reuters said. "There is only one God, America is the enemy of God," the crowd chanted. Witnesses in Falluja said Iraqi guerrillas fired on a United States base just outside the town early today, but American soldiers on the scene said there were no casualties, Reuters reported. The declaration issued by Sunni Muslim clerics today said, "The people of Falluja condemn the massacre that was committed on Friday against people dedicated to the protection of Falluja." In Tikrit, an Iraqi bystander was killed when he was caught in the crossfire of a battle between guerrillas and American troops, an American commander said. nytimes.com