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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (114302)	9/9/2003 10:19:20 PM
From: Jacob Snyder	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<unlike the Palestinians, the great majority of Jews were horrified at the news, and Ben Gurion brought the Irgun to heel as soon as he could> Ben Gurion integrated Begin's terrorists into the Hagannah, which became the Israeli Army. If "the great majority of Jews were horrified", then why did they later elect Begin Prime Minister? And Deir Hassein is only one example, of a continuous process from the 1920s till today. I see little difference between Deir Hassein, and what Sharon allowed at the Palestinian refugee camps outside Beirut, and the leveling of the Janin refugee camp, and the current assassination campaign against Hamas (which kills and injures more bystanders than Hamas militants, by a ratio of about 20 to 1). All that, and much more, is systematic terrorism, to preserve a colonial conquest.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (114302)	9/10/2003 9:36:00 AM
From: Noel de Leon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

"Ben Gurion brought the Irgun to heel as soon as he could - only six weeks later, while fighting was still going on. Ever heard of the Altalena?" Here is a bit of history. I think it interesting that the spin you put on the Atalena incident is quite deceitful. "...In May of 1948, the Irgun, seeing the need for supplies, outfitted a boat, the Altalena, with a large amount of supplies, including rifles, machine guns, bombs, and bullets. In addition, nine hundred immigrant-soldiers were on board. It left France late, not in May, but in June of 1948. During this time a cease-fire was set up. The Israeli forces were at this time tired from the heavy fighting and were desperate for munitions and supplies. Due to the animosity between the fighting forces, the Haganah, whose leaders feared that Begin's heroic though small army would pose a serious problem to the new government, refused to share munitions with them. When the Atalena approached the Israeli shores, the new Jewish government demanded that all supplies be given over to them to distribute as they saw fit. Begin refused to give it all over, but he pleaded with them that they give his fighters a percentage of the supplies. As the Alalena approached the Israeli coast, the troops of the Palmach came down to the shore to prevent any unauthorized unloading of the boat. Begin, not willing to give over all the supplies that his group had bought and brought in at their own expense, tried negotiating with the Palmach commander. The commander was immovable. Begin then decided to go to the government heads to receive their personal assurances that they would get some of the supplies. The Palmach commander began sending small skirmish boats to shoot at the Altalena and any one trying to either leave or board the boat. Begin protested to the commander, but to no avail. Light artillery was aimed at the boat and casualties were reported, but the soldiers on the Altalena, would not fire upon their Jewish brethren who were shooting at them, hoping that they would come to their senses. Later the Jewish commander began shelling in the direction of the Altalena, each shell coming closer and closer. The captain of the boat hoisted the white flag, but his flag was ignored. The shell came closer and closer. Finally, the boat was hit. The entire boat was destroyed; Jewish soldiers were killed and wounded. All the supplies and armament were lost. This created a very deep riff between the followers of Menachem Begin and David Ben Gurion. Even after the war ended and peace was won, the two sides carried deep hatred towards each other. Ben Gurion went on to be the first Prime Minister of Israel, and his group, the Jewish Agency, developed into what is today the Labor party in Israel. Menachem Begin, became the head of the opposition in the Israeli Parliament (Keneset) and his group became what is today's Liked party." jewishmag.co.il Doesn't sound like this was about Deir Yassin. More about stopping Begin from messing up the cease fire. Sounds a bit like Abbas trying to stop Hamas et al.