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Technology Stocks : Cisco Systems, Inc. (CSCO) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: RetiredNow who wrote (64450)9/10/2003 5:06:43 PM
From: Lizzie Tudor  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 77397
 
If it really is no big deal, then why won't Cisco expense them?

I'm not saying its not a big deal, I'm just saying that the benefits outweigh the costs.

Remember a few months ago I told you the 2 alternatives wrt options. One was keep options and don't expense. The other was the "offshore dump". Well guess what, most companies took the latter option. Cisco has also offshored a substantial portion of their staff, but they have not totally dumped R&D- yet. Cisco now has far fewer US employees than they used to. This information is hard to get because companies don't like to disclose it, it is bad for goodwill. My view is that Cisco is down to about half of their peak SV employees now, just an unscientific estimate. This is how I know stock options grants are declining, Cisco used to grant all employees options. They don't do that anymore but even if they did, they've offshored half the company. Also, line level staff have been turned into "managers" of these offshore teams (with no promotions), which is some kind of hell I can assure you. The reason GMs at cisco and other companies are so high are due to these structural changes, which are extremely hard on staff. Ask yourself if you would want an accounting job, which was compensated as if you were Joe accountant, but really you had 10 offshore people working for you that knew nothing about US accounting, and your role was to "manage" this team? This is the end of the line on profitability and cost cutting at Cisco. If investors aren't satisfied with the pay scale Chambers has designed the next step is the total offshore dump ala Oracle. There is nothing more to squeeze. Remember if you do the total offshore dump there is the danger that your market will go offshore too. Thats what happened to oracle, they offshored themselves out of their own market, so there is a large risk to shifting all R&D offshore.

There is an indian stock market I believe, some people may want to invest there is they are not satisfied with US pay packages. They don't give out stock options. Perhaps those that are unhappy with Cisco as an investment may want to look there.



To: RetiredNow who wrote (64450)9/11/2003 10:18:57 AM
From: rkral  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 77397
 
mindmeld, re "Cisco just issued 141 million options to employees. That is a huge number, which is not "far fewer options" than have been granted in the past."

Over the last eight years ...
... Granted option shares has declined from a high of 384MM in FY97 to a low of 199MM in FY03. If no more are granted during FY04, the 141MM you cited would be a new low. The 8-year total grant of 2.2
... Total reported profits would have been 53% lower (6559/12462), if options expense had been reported per SFAS 123. The 35% hit (1259/3578) for FY03 is mild by comparison.
... If your preference is expense based on option fair value upon grant, it has risen from $41MM in FY96 to $1,691MM in FY01, and since declined slightly to $1,259MM in FY03.
... If your preference is expense based on exercise, it has risen from $369MM in FY96 to $5,714MM in FY00, and since declined significantly to $245MM, with a low of $113MM in FY02. This reflects the current underwater condition of many options, and lower CSCO prices for those options not underwater.
... A total of 2.2 billion shares were granted, and 1.1 billion shares were exercised. Of course, some of the grants were cancelled.

THE BORING, GORING DETAILS. Below is an updated Cisco options expense table using John Shannon's #reply-18560306 as the starting point.

When examining the table, keep the life cycle of options in mind. The fair value, per SFAS 123, of options granted one year are amortized over the following years and then reported as the SFAS 123 option expense. Yet later, the options might be exercised, and a "tax benefit due to option exercise" is reported. Except for the after-tax cost based on exercise, all values are directly from the Ks. This after-tax cost is calculated assuming a 35% statutory corporate tax rate.

<Based on SFAS-123><Based on Exercise>
Options GAAP SFAS-123 AfterTax Tax AfterTax
FY Granted EPS EPS Cost Benefit Cost
03 199 $3,578 $2,319 $1,259 $132 $ 245
O2 282 1,893 373 1,520 61 113
01 320 (1,014) (2,705) 1,691 1,755 3,259
00 295 2,668 1,549 1,119 3,077 5,714
99 245 2,023 1,487 536 837 1,554
98 282 1,350 1,109 241 422 784
97 384 1,051 899 152 274 509
96 317 913 872 41 198 369

Sums 2,234 $12,462 $5,903 $6,559 $6,756 $12,548


Regards, Ron



To: RetiredNow who wrote (64450)9/13/2003 9:39:45 AM
From: hueyone  Respond to of 77397
 
Any CEO worth his salt knows that the four pillars of a company include customers, employees, shareholders, and suppliers/partners. Each plays a critical role in the company's health. To ignore one or enrich another at the expense of one of these will inevitably lead to long term problems.

This is worth repeating imo.

Regards, Huey