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Technology Stocks : Cisco Systems, Inc. (CSCO) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Stock Farmer who wrote (64466)	9/11/2003 6:13:13 AM
From: Lizzie Tudor	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 77397

I was wondering what happened to you! You never come around in a bull market, just disappear. I'm sure you must think Cisco is really overvalued now. First of all, according to the mercury news SV is down to 1996 employment levels. This is pre-dotcom bubble so you can't blame it on the flaky companies from the bubble. I believe this is accurate. These jobs had to come from somewhere. We have lost 1 in 3 jobs in SV. Put another way, the county had 864,500 non-farm jobs in July, about the same as it had more than seven years ago in the beginning of 1996. As far as 10-Q. I have seen the numbers, I looked last Feb. The problem is that unlike the Mercury news numbers, Cisco only lists bona fide employees and not the 1099s- you are missing a huge number of people on both sides of the pond. All the IT people for example from Oracle were 1099, those aren't included. There isn't any way to get a count of how many employees + 1099s used to work for Cisco locally, vs. how many do now, I know I have tried. The mercury news numbers on matters like this are the most accurate I find. I don't know how they come up with their numbers. I'm trying to figure out if people here are in denial about this or you are complaining about the options issues. It is just my opinion that overstating options "costs" leads to more offshoring. Because it overcharges what US employees cost on the books. In the early 90s when Siebel paid in options their sense was that options were essentially free to the company. Consequently they could startup with low costs, they paid half salaries and in some cases lower. There are other drags against US labor, payroll taxes for example so its not like options "expenses" are the only screw to the US based employee. Still, the preferred method of cost control vs employees for startups in the early 90s when things were quite tight was options. Now it is offshoring, in fact KP is demanding your offshore plans on the business plan. Since the cost in salary to the company is the same or maybe 20% differential US based + options vs. offshore, why offshore? It has to be because they feel they can't afford the options. Based on my own experience I doubt it is state of the art manpower from Satyam. But as far as the job loss and offshoring, this issue is all over the money shows, there was just another piece on Kudlow and Kramer a few days ago (those 2 guys are DEFINITELY in denial, phew), so are you questioning the job loss, the relevance of it, the mercury news figures or what exactly? Because it really is quite obvious to most working in the industry that we are undergoing a dramatic shift in the labor markets. And half the bldgs at Cisco and Dell are empty. They used to be full. TigerPaw told me yesterday the Dell Metric facility is gone. About a thousand people there once. We're in a recovery and have been for a year.

To: Stock Farmer who wrote (64466)	9/11/2003 10:35:10 AM
From: Kirk ©	Respond to of 77397

The data is published in Cisco's 10K report. In July 2001, CSCO had 38,000 employees, 11,000 outside the US In July 2002, CSCO had 36,000 employees, 10,000 outside the US. In July 2003, CSCO had 34,000 employees, 9,000 outside the US. Is it possible there are workers who are not "employed" but do "contract labor?" I think for the point you are trying to make to be meaningful, you need to include contract labor jobs. It seems that Cisco has out sourced management of many of these contractor jobs as time has progressed. In the heydays, a friend of mine worked at Cisco and she said many of the folks she dealt with, such as the HR folks who brought her in, were contractors. She was in the first wave to leave and got a great package and was smart to leave for Texas rather than stay here and jump to another company only to get laid off as has happened to so many. Didn't Cisco used to build much of its product? A friend of mine just went to India to manage one of the contractors operations there. He used to manage folks assembling stuff in the South Bay who built Cisco (and others) gear via contract assembly. I also own Lam Research (LRCX). They have cut staff and now have things built overseas by contract. Great for the bottom line, but hard on the folks in the US that used to build this complex equipment. Disclaimer: Long Cisco for a trade, perhaps an investment if it keeps going higher! -g- Cisco TA Charts: suite101.com

To: Stock Farmer who wrote (64466)	9/11/2003 11:18:12 PM
From: Victor Lazlo	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 77397

Seems to me many of Cisco's oveseas people would be sales, marketing, sales support, operations, finance etc. After all it's a global co, no? Aren't many of Cisco's fastest-growth geographies outside the US? They would need to have many of the same functions in other countries as they do in the US, I would guess. Not just 'off-shored' software coding and manufacturing for the domestic US market. I wonder if Lizzie thinks that Diamler-Chrysler is getting away with something by having some manufacturing, sales and product development assets in Germany ?? <<gg>>

To: Stock Farmer who wrote (64466)	10/2/2003 4:03:36 PM
From: Lizzie Tudor	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 77397

You've been beating that drum too hard on this and other threads. Might be time to step down from the soap box before someone coins a pejorative phrase, like "Overseas griping" or something. So what do you think about this recovery now? I mean the recession ended 2 years ago right and here we are with 400K jobless claims. Think we can recover like this, and if so, when do you think the recovery will arrive. Non farm payrolls are due tomorrow with an expectation of negative 30K, a significant revision downward from a few months ago with expectations at 50K job creation or so. I assume you think we will get job growth tomorrow. Looks like some other griping going on- RPT-Bernanke says slow U.S. job growth a concern biz.yahoo.com Fed officials express worry on lack of jobs biz.yahoo.com "In this particular cycle, I believe the challenge is somewhat more difficult because technological change and globalization are affecting the economy's long-run capacity for growth and near-term capacity to employ people in ways that are difficult to quantify," he said.