Sept 11, 2001 ( cont )
[22:59] Harpo >> When I lived in New York, in the late 70's, the building across the street from where I lived burned
[23:00] Harpo >> It took 200 firefighters 3 days to put it out
[23:00] Harpo >> I was evacuated for over a week
[23:00] Harpo >> The temp was about +5F and the wind was blowing about 25 mph
[23:01] Waldeen >> this was a dastardly attack, to be so hateful as to plan details such planes full of fuel, is hard to imagine.
[23:01] Jetups >> ogm, I was in Waterville Valley last month, for a week, man I could live there 9 months a year. REal nice.
[23:01] Harpo >> The firemen would come down off their ladders with 50 lbs of Ice on their backs and the front of their garments would be steaming
[23:01] +rhansen >> I dont get it waldeen, i dont understand the motive
[23:01] Waldeen >> wow Harpo
[23:01] peter >> they view themselves as at war with us I think Waldeen, from that perspective it's more comprehensible
[23:01] Harpo >> There were people walking around in the inferno (firemen)
[23:01] Jetups >> Harpo, why didn't they let it burn
[23:02] Harpo >> They were like superheros
[23:02] Harpo >> The couldent let it burn because of all the adjacent structures, many of them woodframed (brownstone brooklyn)
[23:02] Harpo >> I have th e utmost respect for NY firefighters
[23:03] +rhansen >> unfortunately the firefighters today didnt have achance:(
[23:03] moekas >> just got a call from my some friends at NYU....all are staying in shelters...the dorm was evacuated and they are not allowed back tonight.
[23:03] Jetups >> no they didn't, fire chief is gone too
[23:03] mweka >> NEW YORK, Sept. 11 (UPI) -- Police in New Jersey reportedly stopped a car
[23:03] peter >> must be smoke and ash everywhere moekas
[23:03] +rhansen >> i saw that whole companies are missing jetups
[23:03] mweka >> carrying explosives under the George Washington Bridge. WCBS-TV said two men
[23:03] Harpo >> I remember when a corner of the building broke off and fell 13 stories, firemen jumped off a fire truck and ran and the firetruck was flattened
[23:04] Jetups >> rhansen, if you were a firefighter, do you think you could have gone to that site?
[23:04] moekas >> peter, nuts...i was just there 48 hours ago.
[23:04] mweka >> were arrested and the car contained enough explosives to take down the entire
[23:04] NICK >> 265 firefighters presumed dead
[23:04] +rhansen >> i would have to jetups
[23:04] mweka >> span which connects New Jersey to upper Manhattan. New York police were not
[23:04] mweka >> they were trying to blow up the GW bridge
[23:04] +rhansen >> when its your job you live for it
[23:04] Jetups >> mw!!!
[23:04] +rhansen >> when mw?
[23:05] mweka >> was on bloomberg news about 5 mins ago
[23:05] +rhansen >> geez
[23:05] mweka >> friend just sent it
[23:05] Jetups >> my family uses that bridge everyday
[23:05] Harpo >> Sorry for those firefighters, brave men
[23:05] +rhansen >> jetups, i know you would have also
[23:05] chris431 >> cnn...very sad...
[23:05] mweka >> anthonypacific.com
[23:05] chris431 >> telling about a son who called his aunt & mom from 1 of the planes today
[23:05] Jetups >> yes chris
[23:05] +rhansen >> besides, neither of us would have thought the building would have fallen
[23:06] +rhansen >> THEY PROBABLY SAVED THOUSANDS
[23:06] Jetups >> true, you couldn't help but help if you thought you could
[23:06] +rhansen >> even from here we had reports of people escaping from the 80th floor
[23:06] WhoLovesYa >> People are now going from hospital to hospital looking for relatives
[23:06] WhoLovesYa >> Many people were contacted from inside saying they were trying to get out
[23:07] +rhansen >> i am glad that no one from the site got hurt
[23:07] Jetups >> I suppose a lot will depend on how fast the second building's habitants started evacuating, after the first one got hit.
[23:08] +rhansen >> actually, almost all if not all of the second building got out fromwhat i have seen
[23:08] Harpo >> Did Bond check in?
[23:08] +rhansen >> don't know
[23:08] mweka >> kenny apparently heard he is ok
[23:09] Harpo >> "Man has dominated man to his injury" Ecclesiastes 8:9 Still true after 3000 years
[23:10] Jetups >> speaking.com Marvin Cetron..was on NBC a little while ago
[23:10] +rhansen >> unfortunately harpo, a lot of this is religious based:(
[23:11] peter >> i don't really think that's it Bob
[23:11] peter >> it's about Israel being there by our support, mainly
[23:11] Harpo >> Yes, that is true
[23:11] peter >> i think maybe
[23:11] peter >> not an expert tho
[23:12] peter >> it's complicated and I'm gonna try to listen instead of talk
[23:12] Harpo >> No doubt highly insulting to the creator as well.
[23:12] +rhansen >> ok, start now then peter:)
[23:12] peter >> which is a corageous historic effort on my part
[23:12] +rhansen >> who actually put isreal there>
[23:12] +rhansen >> ?
[23:12] +rhansen >> the UN?
[23:13] +rhansen >> I never understood how they took that land
[23:13] Harpo >> Germany and Russia
[23:13] peter >> the Zionists started and then the Brits ok'd it with UN etc, then us
[23:13] peter >> due to what Harpo said
[23:13] +rhansen >> they just started a colony or something and grew it?
[23:13] ogm >> They should've put it in Siberia :) There is plenty of room and no other population :)
[23:13] +rhansen >> how come the others didnt kick their ass
[23:13] ogm >> No one to fight with :)
[23:14] +rhansen >> right ogm
[23:14] Harpo >> After Germany they were so mad that no one could stand in their way
[23:14] peter >> they were tough and then the Western powers protected them
[23:14] +rhansen >> so why does palestine want the land back so bad, after this much time?
[23:14] peter >> why do we want the WTC back?
[23:14] Harpo >> They had it for far longer
[23:14] +rhansen >> people have lost land all the time
[23:15] peter >> probably we kept Israeli's from just totally conquering
[23:15] +rhansen >> peter, that is today, we will forget this in a year
[23:15] ogm >> rh, the problem is that palestinians have no other place to live
[23:15] peter >> we are rich, Palestinaians not
[23:15] moekas >> bob, the british occupied the area....and made a deal with isreal that when they withdrew...isreal would take over.....law was in place that no weapons were allowed to be bought or held. the brits left all the w
[23:15] +rhansen >> probably as soon as the markets open back up:)
[23:16] +rhansen >> ogm, where do they live now?
[23:16] ogm >> territories
[23:16] moekas >> ogm, palestinians don't want another place to live.....it's there home
[23:16] +rhansen >> in the ocean?
[23:16] peter >> in Israel bob, silly
[23:16] ogm >> There is no country of palestine
[23:16] +rhansen >> lol
[23:16] moekas >> Microsoft is down 17%?
[23:16] moekas >> wow
[23:16] +rhansen >> then why can't they just accept that
[23:17] moekas >> ogm, one can say there is no country 'isreal' either.
[23:17] Harpo >> A land flowing with hatred and strife
[23:17] ogm >> accept what ? That they have no home ?
[23:17] peter >> many want to Bob, that's what the peace negotiations are about
[23:17] Jetups >> On May 14, 1948, on the day in which the British Mandate over a Palestine expired, the Jewish People's Council gathered at the Tel Aviv Museum, and approved the following proclamation, declaring the establishment
[23:17] +rhansen >> peter is correct
[23:17] +rhansen >> ogm is siding with a small percentage for some reason
[23:17] +rhansen >> :)
[23:18] ogm >> I just like arguing :)
[23:18] +rhansen >> There is a small faction that need to be takeb out somehow:(
[23:18] peter >> so viewed from the Arab perspective, the U.S, is a conquiering force which has stolen their homeland and their pride
[23:18] +rhansen >> well, they aint seen anything yet peter:)
[23:18] peter >> but the practical folks want to just move on and become Westernes
[23:18] +rhansen >> right
[23:18] moekas >> peter....no ...americans back those who have stolen their homeland and their pride
[23:18] peter >> i'm not sure we shoulda been there to begin with, but too late now
[23:18] +rhansen >> i agree
[23:19] peter >> ok moekas
[23:19] peter >> and then the whole thing is horribly complicated by oil
[23:19] +rhansen >> but at the same time i am ashamed that we only get into the fray after we get hurt
[23:19] ssgold >> 14% of WTC employees were through Empire Choice (7,000) according to forbes.com
[23:19] ssgold >> forbes.com
[23:20] +rhansen >> we definitly screwed up security wise
[23:20] peter >> Bob, i suppose you think we should have nuked Nam?
[23:20] +rhansen >> no way
[23:20] ogm >> The Israel - Palestine problem has lasted for thousands of years. And they still can't resolve it.
[23:20] +rhansen >> i am just saying that war is inevitable in our lifetime
[23:20] +rhansen >> and that i hope i am wrong
[23:20] ogm >> I hope you're wrong
[23:20] peter >> i'd rather be more isolationist - but maybe that's naive
[23:21] +rhansen >> lol
[23:21] +rhansen >> oh yeah that has always worked
[23:21] Jetups >> Message 16335754
[23:21] +rhansen >> till it doesnt
[23:21] +rhansen >> peter, you have to admit, we have had a hell of a run
[23:21] Jetups >> velociraptor looking for 1000 down on Dow, anyone going to dispute that
[23:22] moekas >> just got a call from my aunt....she's with her neighbour. neighbour's husband has still not been accounted for. he was working on the 89th floor of the WTC.
[23:22] +rhansen >> depends on our action jetups
[23:22] Jetups >> very difficult time moe
[23:22] Jetups >> what action rhan
[23:22] +rhansen >> dang moe:(
[23:22] Jetups >> oh, action against terrorists
[23:22] +rhansen >> right
[23:23] +rhansen >> i have acouple longs, they are probably fubar
[23:23] ogm >> There will be no action
[23:23] +rhansen >> but i have some shorts too
[23:23] ogm >> At least not anytime soon
[23:23] Jetups >> cnn saying there may be some trapped folks trying to get thru by cell phone
[23:23] +rhansen >> why not ogm?
[23:23] petewitt >> phone calls cell phones from people trapped in the rubble cnn
[23:23] +rhansen >> wow
[23:23] ogm >> rh, because no one is sure who did it at this point. Only guesses.
[23:24] petewitt >> there are surviors
[23:24] Jetups >> rhansen 'some shorts' ...haha, I can imagine
[23:24] ogm >> I think they are going to blame it on shorts
[23:24] Jetups >> of course
[23:24] +rhansen >> I think george made it clear ogm "no distinction between terrorists or the countries that harbor them"
[23:25] +rhansen >> that and "war on terrorism"
[23:25] Jetups >> Cheney wrote that into the speech ;-)
[23:25] +rhansen >> good
[23:25] ogm >> George sure talks a lot
[23:25] peter >> tell you one thing that gives me hope is places like this site where we have people of pretty diverse backgrounds and opinions, and we have the opportunity to learn from one another and the 'other side' takes on a
[23:26] +rhansen >> we are all good an intelligent people imo, that is why this site has survived so much
[23:26] moekas >> that american chief of staff looks like he's ready to go to war....scary looking guy,
[23:26] peter >> well, next time we want to take out the Moslems, maybe we'll think thrice
[23:26] ogm >> moekas, of course he is ready to go to war. He has to justify his paycheck
[23:27] +rhansen >> hey, I like the mid east people
[23:27] ogm >> since when ?
[23:27] ogm >> :)
[23:27] +rhansen >> always
[23:27] peter >> I'm only trying to say that wars typically demonize people from the other place - Japanese and Jewish characatures for example
[23:27] WhoLovesYa >> Message 16335659
[23:27] peter >> and since we have folks from all over that wont' work as well anymore
[23:28] +rhansen >> ogm, i think the majority of them the vast majority of them are very good
[23:28] moekas >> peter, american muslim org's all over the US have received phone calls of hatred and threats today....
[23:28] ogm >> rh, I thought you were going to bomb them just a few minutes ago ?
[23:28] +rhansen >> and it was moe's idea of the marshell plan that i like
[23:28] peter >> wow Who, I wonder if you could find posts like that every day or not?
[23:28] peter >> i know moekas, i'm sorry
[23:29] +rhansen >> but how do you do a marshell plan with them without first defeating those that hold power?
[23:29] peter >> i remember the taunts from the 1970's oil crises
[23:29] peter >> moek, what country is your family from?
[23:30] moekas >> bob, the biggest part of the marshall plan is helping to support the poor nations...and help build their infrastruture.
[23:30] +rhansen >> oh, well that sucks:)
[23:30] ogm >> moekas, he just likes the bombimg part :)
[23:30] peter >> Marshall Plan worked on countries that were already industrialized
[23:30] +rhansen >> where do you get these ideas while at vegas?
[23:31] +rhansen >> and destroyed peter
[23:31] moekas >> lol, you're forgetting....im a student...i gotta listen to views of old guys like u everyday
[23:31] +rhansen >> :)
[23:32] ogm >> Lets see if Bush raises taxes now
[23:32] moekas >> peter, marshall plan was implemented to curb communism...the states that were susceptibel to fall......those are the ones that were targetted.
[23:32] peter >> yes Bob, my point is that they already had a populace and civil orgnaizations etc - the easiest part is the physcal infrastructure
[23:32] peter >> true moek
[23:33] moekas >> peter, mother is from india, father from east africa (tanzania) but lost of familly and business interests in pakistan.
[23:33] +rhansen >> he will lower social security instead ogm:)
[23:33] Jetups >> The story about the van at the GWB, apparently NO explosives found after all.
[23:33] Jetups >> live, according to Giuliani
[23:33] peter >> gotcha moekas - I know Dar fairly well - was that where he was?
[23:34] +rhansen >> man, 17% down on msft, that would be an easy buy
[23:34] moekas >> peter, yes
[23:34] goshortu >> jet man bs rumors travel fast
[23:34] Jetups >> might have to dust off the retirement account to do some buying if the open is huge gap down
[23:34] peter >> i was one of the rare tourists in Pakistan as well moek, went to the Afghan border outside Peshawar
[23:35] Jetups >> yep goshortu
[23:35] +rhansen >> peter, didnt you try the marshall plan yourself a few years back, I remember you posting that it failed badly?
[23:35] anthony >> when t does teh mkt open??
[23:35] +rhansen >> in africa
[23:35] +rhansen >> MSFT is down 17% tony
[23:35] peter >> yeah Bob,
[23:35] anthony >> what bob??
[23:35] +rhansen >> well, thanks for trying, seriously
[23:35] +rhansen >> in europe
[23:35] peter >> ;-)
[23:36] +rhansen >> stocks are down 15 to 20% it seems tony, overseas
[23:36] peter >> hey Tony - i don't think we know
[23:36] peter >> i'm not sure that clearing systems can operate
[23:36] anthony >> hansen is msft down?
[23:36] moekas >> tony, HWP down 34%
[23:37] +rhansen >> yes
[23:37] peter >> how can you buy stuff overseas like that?
[23:37] +rhansen >> offshore account:)
[23:37] moekas >> ibm down 10%
[23:37] peter >> where is this trading?
[23:37] moekas >> de.finance.yahoo.com
[23:37] +rhansen >> wow PG
[23:37] +rhansen >> these are all buys
[23:37] peter >> moek, you got a way to buy in Frankfurt?
[23:38] anthony >> have we bombed anyone,...sorry but i just woke up
[23:38] peter >> wait a minute, that's yesterday
[23:38] +rhansen >> man, these euorpeans panic
[23:38] peter >> says Sept 11
[23:38] peter >> no Tony, there's been bombs in Kabul but we deny
[23:38] +rhansen >> we are working on it tony
[23:38] +rhansen >> I would keep an eye on ogm and moekas though:)
[23:38] JP_Trapper >> rhan, they remember world war
[23:39] peter >> those prices say a lot about how Germany remembers the war
[23:39] +rhansen >> terrorists attacked Kabul?
[23:39] JP_Trapper >> yes rhan
[23:40] JP_Trapper >> looked like scuds
[23:40] +rhansen >> I think afganastan is saying "look U.S. we have killed ladin, please don't bomb us"
[23:41] JP_Trapper >> don't know if it was terrorist though
[23:41] +rhansen >> if it was from the mid east JP, then it was terrorist
[23:41] +rhansen >> last actual war was like 72 or something
[23:41] Jetups >> you bet, rhansen, people around Ladin got to be freaked
[23:41] JP_Trapper >> I think Afganstan had better decide who they stand with...... us or the terrorist
[23:42] madjohn >> my two cents - i think we should declare war on all terrorists everywhere - we know who they are - we should wipe them out before they can attack us, too
[23:42] +rhansen >> i am not sure i want them standing with us, they gross me out lately
[23:42] moekas >> per cnn.....islamic heads across the US are getting so many hate calls and threats...they are shutting down phones and websites.
[23:42] JP_Trapper >> origin unknown
[23:42] +rhansen >> that is a shame moe
[23:43] Jetups >> de.finance.yahoo.com yikes HWP
[23:43] stockguru >> "afghanistan" is the group in the north that's fighting the taliban; it's the taliban that needs to make the decision
[23:43] JP_Trapper >> I am sure Russia would be glad to help us take on Afganstan
[23:43] +rhansen >> no kidding
[23:43] JP_Trapper >> ;-)
[23:43] +rhansen >> that is what i said in the beginning
[23:43] stockguru >> russia is helping the northern alliance
[23:43] stockguru >> don't forget what happened to russia when it invaded the country in 1979
[23:44] peter >> Vietnam redux
[23:44] +rhansen >> yeah, but afghanastan was using our weapons:)
[23:44] +rhansen >> and vietnam was using russias
[23:44] +rhansen >> BUT
[23:44] stockguru >> the us should have continued to support the rebels
[23:44] stockguru >> if it did, there wouldn't be a taliban
[23:44] +rhansen >> if we and russia are using our own weapons...
[23:45] stockguru >> the second the war in afghanistan was over and the russians were defeated, the us completely backed out
[23:45] JP_Trapper >> this is so bad and the free world is going to send a message so strong that I would not rule out a nuclear attact if this was a state supported terrorist attack
[23:45] +rhansen >> i saw film of stingers against the russian HIND choppers
[23:45] +rhansen >> cut them in half
[23:45] ssgold >> per cnn..FBI agents preparing search warrants on Hollywood, FL and Daytona locations...
[23:45] peter >> who supported Taliba from outside stockguru?
[23:45] ssgold >> that was a few minutes ago
[23:45] stockguru >> Pakistan
[23:45] stockguru >> which the US finally admitted to today
[23:46] peter >> and Pakistan got their stuff from us
[23:46] stockguru >> a good friend of mine's dad was a general in the Afghan army during russia's invasion
[23:46] +rhansen >> why would pakastan support taliban?
[23:46] +rhansen >> are they that fanatical also?
[23:46] peter >> wow stockguru
[23:46] peter >> Bob, you use the word 'they' very liberally
[23:46] peter >> they is 100 million people in this case
[23:47] stockguru >> to take advantage of a country that is open to anyone willing to capitalize on it
[23:47] +rhansen >> wtf word you want me to use?
[23:47] stockguru >> Pakistan was willing
[23:47] stockguru >> who else could?
[23:47] JP_Trapper >> Pakastan does not have the money to suport shit
[23:47] moekas >> true
[23:47] stockguru >> russia doesn't care anymore
[23:47] stockguru >> mongolia couldn't care less
[23:47] stockguru >> china will never do it
[23:47] stockguru >> who's left?
[23:47] stockguru >> the iranians (who have their own problems) and pakistan
[23:47] moekas >> pakistan is very cozy with the us...they would never jepordize that relationship
[23:47] peter >> Iranians have lots of money tho
[23:48] stockguru >> Afghanistan is a gold mine for anybody that can instill a government
[23:48] +rhansen >> i thought iran was more cozy with ius now
[23:48] stockguru >> cotton and oil are abundant
[23:48] ssgold >> FBI Florida...passenger manifest shows possible Bin Laden accomplice with links there
[23:48] stockguru >> and ripe for the picking
[23:48] peter >> stockguru, was Afghanistan ever a nation? as we use the term?
[23:48] petewitt >> kick there asses take the oil fields
[23:48] +Sword >> Start of construction for the WTC was 1966. Building opened in 1975. It took 9 years to complete. 1 hour to destroy.
[23:48] ogm >> Pakistan was strongly supposrting Afgan oposition during the war with Russia
[23:48] stockguru >> yes, and a beautiful one...until the russian invasion
[23:49] +rhansen >> hmmm, i thought it was done in 3 years
[23:49] +rhansen >> opened 71
[23:49] +rhansen >> empire state took 1 year
[23:49] stockguru >> Pakistan was supporting it because it would rather be neighbors with afghanistan than the USSR
[23:49] peter >> oh, i forgot about this century, sorry stock
[23:49] +Sword >> skyscrapers.com
[23:49] anthony >> the emnpire state building was not built in 1 year
[23:49] stockguru >> the CIA by the way sent in a group not too long ago to take out bin laden
[23:49] stockguru >> they failed
[23:49] +rhansen >> ok, you win sword:)
[23:50] peter >> last century, forgot what century we're in
[23:50] anthony >> groups.google.com
[23:50] +rhansen >> funny, empire state took only one year in middle of depression
[23:50] peter >> i visited the Afghan refugee camps outside of Peshawar 15 years ago
[23:50] petewitt >> wow look at cnn
[23:51] petewitt >> new video of first plane
[23:51] stockguru >> good people...unfortunate situation
[23:51] peter >> very
[23:51] +rhansen >> so its the govt?
[23:51] +rhansen >> peter?
[23:51] peter >> what?
[23:51] +rhansen >> in afgan and pakistan?
[23:52] sygr >> there is footage of the 1st plane now??
[23:52] anthony >> where?
[23:52] petewitt >> groups.google.com
[23:52] zeez >> cnn just said downtown will be sealed off tomorrow except to rescue workers => no way market opens Thursday
[23:52] petewitt >> cnn unreal footage
[23:52] NICK >> just om CNN
[23:52] zeez >> sorry, it was on Fox News
[23:53] petewitt >> keyed mic on plane
[23:54] petewitt >> recorded
[23:55] keith >> Just got back from the triage center across the street from the former World Trade Center. No time to write much, but wanted to share one image
[23:57] peter >> please do keith
[23:57] Parnell >> yes
[23:57] keith >> In front, the enormous top of the World Trade Center in shards sticking out of the ground about 5 stories high
[23:58] keith >> To the right, a fire engine bearing an undulating American flag--well lit from the spotlights on the fire truck
[23:58] anthony >> keith is there large hope of any survivors?
[23:59] petewitt >> people are alive in there making cell calls
[23:59] +rhansen >> tony, cell phone calls have been received
[23:59] keith >> And in between, on the storefront of a building left standing, the store logo for "Century 21"...Words fail.
[23:59] zeez >> indeed
[23:59] anthony >> keith horrible is all i can say |
