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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Neeka who wrote (458608)9/14/2003 9:03:52 PM
From: Raymond Duray  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 769667
 
Au contraire!

Re: your statement is based on nothing more than opinion and there is absolutely no proof what so ever that this diabolical scheme is the goal of GWB and his administration.

Nonsense. MSI's views are informed by the present campaign by Geo. Bush and J. Ashcroft to consolidate power in an unaccountable KGB style judiciary that scoffs at the rights of citizens and that shreds the Bill of Rights. Here's the latest proof of this wicked intent, as written in a publication that isn't particularly noted as a leftist agitprop facilitator:

truthout.org

Bush Seeks to Expand Access to Private Data
By Eric Lichtblau
The New York Times

Sunday 14 September 2003

WASHINGTON, Sept. 13 - For months, President Bush's advisers have assured a skittish public
that law-abiding Americans have no reason to fear the long reach of the antiterrorism law known as the
Patriot Act because its most intrusive measures would require a judge's sign-off.

But in a plan announced this week to expand counterterrorism powers, President Bush adopted a
very different tack. In a three-point presidential plan that critics are already dubbing Patriot Act II, Mr.
Bush is seeking broad new authority to allow federal agents - without the approval of a judge or even a
federal prosecutor - to demand private records and compel testimony.

Mr. Bush also wants to expand the use of the death penalty in crimes like terrorist financing, and he
wants to make it tougher for defendants in such cases to be freed on bail before trial. These proposals
are also sure to prompt sharp debate, even among Republicans.

Opponents say that the proposal to allow federal agents to issue subpoenas without the approval of
a judge or grand jury will significantly expand the law enforcement powers granted by Congress after
the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. And they say it will also allow the Justice Department - after months of
growing friction with some judges - to limit the role of the judiciary still further in terrorism cases.

Indeed, Senator Arlen Specter, Republican of Pennsylvania, who is sponsoring the measure to
broaden the death penalty, said in an interview that he was troubled by the other elements of Mr.
Bush's plan. He said he wanted to hold hearings on the president's call for strengthening the Justice
Department's subpoena power "because I'm concerned that it may be too sweeping." The no-bail
proposal concerns him too, the senator said, because "the Justice Department has gone too far. You
have to have a reason to detain."

But administration officials defended Mr. Bush's plan. Even though the administration is confident
that the United States is winning the war on terrorism, they said, they have run into legal obstacles that
need to be addressed.

"We don't want to tie the hands of prosecutors behind their backs," said Mark Corallo, a Justice
Department spokesman, "and it's our responsibility when we find weaknesses in the law to make
suggestions to Congress on how to fix them."

In announcing his plan on Wednesday, Mr. Bush said one way to give authorities stronger tools to
fight terrorists was to let agents demand records through what are known as administrative subpoenas,
in order to move more quickly without waiting for a judge.

The president noted that the government already had the power to use such subpoenas without a
judge's consent to catch "crooked doctors" in health care fraud cases and other investigations.

The analogy was accurate as far as it went, but what Mr. Bush did not mention, legal experts said,
was that administrative subpoenas are authorized in health care investigations because they often
begin as civil cases, where grand jury subpoenas cannot be issued.

The Justice Department used administrative subpoenas more than 3,900 times in a variety of cases
in 2001, the last year for which data was available. The subpoenas are already authorized in more than
300 kinds of investigations, Mr. Corallo said.

"It's just common sense that we should be able to use this tool against terrorists too," he said. "It's
not a matter of more power. It's the fact that time is of the essence and we may need to act quickly
when a judge or a grand jury may not be available."

Officials could not cite specific examples in which difficulties in obtaining a subpoena had slowed a
terrorism investigation.

But Mr. Corallo gave a hypothetical example in which the F.B.I. received a tip in the middle of the
night that an unidentified terrorist had traveled to Boston. Under Mr. Bush's plan, the F.B.I., rather than
waiting for a judicial order, could subpoena all the Boston hotels to get registries for each of their
guests, then run those names against a terrorist database for a match, he said.

Attorney General John Ashcroft and other senior officials, defending the Patriot Act in recent
speeches and interviews, have emphasized that judges must sign off on the investigative tools that
have caused the most public protest, like searching library records or executing warrants without
immediately notifying the target.

One section of the Justice Department's new Patriot Act Web site, lifeandliberty.gov, for instance,
says the law "allows federal agents to ask a court for an order to obtain business records in national
security terrorism cases."

The administration sought to expand the use of administrative subpoenas in the original Patriot Act
in 2001, but Democrats protested and succeeded in killing it.

Civil rights lawyers, defense advocates and some former prosecutors say they see no need to
broaden the Justice Department's powers so markedly. Under current law, they say, terrorism
investigators can typically get a subpoena in a matter of hours or minutes by going through a judge or a
grand jury.

"The fundamental issue here," Nicholas M. Gess, a former federal prosecutor and a senior aide to
the former attorney general Janet Reno, said, "is that at a time of such concern over civil liberties,
there's good reason to have a judge looking over the government's shoulder."

Mr. Bush's proposal, he said, "means that there are no effective checks and balances. It's very
worrisome."

A second proposal by Mr. Bush would strengthen the government's hand in keeping defendants
charged with terrorism-related crimes in jail pending trial.

But critics like Senator Edward M. Kennedy, Democrat of Massachusetts, said they believed the
idea also posed risks of limiting the discretion of federal judges and giving the Justice Department too
much power.

Mr. Bush's proposal would require judges to presume that defendants in terrorism-related offenses
should not be allowed out on bail, unless the defense can persuade the judge otherwise. The proposal
defines terrorism to mean acts like murder, kidnapping or computer attacks intended to "influence or
affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government
conduct."

Such no-bail restrictions, which effectively shift the burden of proof from prosecutors to the defense
in determining whether a defendant should be locked up, are already in place for certain narcotics
trafficking offenses and other charges.

"A suspected terrorist could be released, free to leave the country, or worse, before the trial," Mr.
Bush said. "This disparity in the law makes no sense. If dangerous drug dealers can be held without
bail in this way, Congress should allow for the same treatment for accused terrorists."

Justice Department officials were angered this summer when judges in Alexandria, Va., freed on bail
four men who were charged with supporting Kashmir terrorists. The judges said they were not
persuaded the men posed a clear danger or a flight risk.

Despite Mr. Bush's concerns, Justice Department officials said they knew of no specific instances in
which a person charged in a terrorism case had fled after being granted bail. And critics said they were
unconvinced the current laws needed fixing.

The third element of Mr. Bush's plan would expand the list of terrorism-related crimes eligible for
death.

Suspects like Zacarias Moussaoui, accused of taking part in the 9/11 conspiracy, already face the
prospect of the death penalty for the most serious terrorist offenses.

But Mr. Specter, who said he had worked on the issue for months before the White House asked
him to sponsor legislation, said his measure would allow execution for "gateway" crimes like terrorist
financing, even if the defendant does not carry out the attack.

"The financiers are really the principal culprits," he said.

The proposal would also extend the death penalty to a number of other criminal activities, including
sabotage of a defense installation or a nuclear facility.



To: Neeka who wrote (458608)9/15/2003 12:24:16 AM
From: MSI  Read Replies (4) | Respond to of 769667
 
Besides Ray's links and others, consider for a moment the facts that nothing in the new Acts would have stopped the attacks in question: 9/11, anthrax, DC sniper. There had already been FBI and/or CIA spooks involved in each one of these at some point prior to the event. No further erosion of civil rights was needed.

Take a look at each event, and match that with the requested laws. Each section when tied in together with the rest call for greater ability to set aside the Constitutional protections under the Bill of Rights, in favor of unlimited secret powers of the central government.

There might be more confidence of the American people in the Bush administration's efforts to quell terrorism if they actually quelled terrorism. Consider:

1) Greatly expanded terrorism, including 9/11, occured directly after Bush took office

2) The targeted "leaders", bin Laden and Hussein, have failed to have been captured.

3) Failures have attended the anthrax attack

4) FBI and CIA have been implicated in either ignoring, or actively helping terrorists, for example the FBI paid the rent on two of the 9/11 hijackers, and had a minder following them who was an FBI informant. Not a good indicator.

None of the Acts would have helped in any of the above, and the American people are a bit skeptical on what the administration is really up to. It looks more like a series of scripted power plays, chasing Iraqis around, grabbing bureaucratic power, etc, rather than any sort of real effort to keep Americans safe.

IMO