SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Politics : Stockman Scott's Political Debate Porch -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Rascal who wrote (28091)9/18/2003 8:38:19 PM
From: Thomas M.  Respond to of 89467
 
I didn't know the OSP had a third branch in Texas ...

Tom



To: Rascal who wrote (28091)9/18/2003 9:32:18 PM
From: lurqer  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 89467
 
Have you seen

Interestingly, it was reported on both NBC and CBS (didn't watch ABC tonight). CBS used it as an intro to a piece on why so many people believe that Saddam had something to do with 9-11. Starting with the Prez's denial of any relationship yesterday, they then showed clips of him, Rumsfeld and Cheney making statements which tied the two.

JMO

lurqer

Edit: Just saw your post wrt this on another thread.



To: Rascal who wrote (28091)9/18/2003 10:37:57 PM
From: Karen Lawrence  Respond to of 89467
 
Good for Kennedy! Here's a good article: Anger-Baiting On The Right
tompaine.com

David Corn, Washington editor of The Nation, is the author of The Lies of George W. Bush: Mastering the Politics of Deception (Crown Publishers), which will be released on September 30, 2003.

Perhaps I'm being slow on the uptake, but I've noticed that the Right has found a way to try to diminish left-of-center partisans. In recent weeks, conservative commentators have branded the Bush opposition "The Angry Left," which apparently is not meant as a compliment. Some examples: James Taranto of The Wall Street Journal's OpinionJournal.com observed that Sen. Joseph Lieberman wants to "save his party from the Angry Left." (Taranto also wrote in early August, "Oh dear, now the Angry Left is angry at us. The Wall Street Journal has been hit by a mass e-mail campaign, spurred by our... item in which we characterized MoveOn.org as a ‘far-left, pro-Saddam group.’" Now, wasn’t it silly of MoveOn-ers to be offended by that? ) Fox News Channel’s John Gibson recently asked a guest, "Is [Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean] as angry as The Angry Left?"

When I appeared on a public radio show the day after George W. Bush said he needed an additional $87 billion for his endeavors in Iraq and Afghanistan, my fellow guest, National Review's Byron York, at one point cracked that I -- by complaining that Bush had proposed no means of paying for his occupation of Iraq -- was effectively presenting the viewpoint of "The Angry Left." And on various Web sites, bloggers and chatheads of rightward tilt and of no name recognition have been deriding The Angry Left for months.

The Angry Left has yet to be certified by Ann Coulter as the conservative movement’s official description of America’s traitors, but I suspect that the commentators of the Right will increasingly resort to this label to dismiss what might well be a growing opposition to Bush (or, at least, an opposition growing in passion). The moniker is designed as a put-down, one meant to signal that those afflicted with anti-Bushism are motivated by emotion, not rationality, that they cannot be reasoned with, that they and their ideas need not be taken seriously.

John Podhoretz, a columnist for The New York Post and a Fox News Channel contributor (as I am), wrote a few weeks ago, "The rise of an ardent, passionate, angry and engaged left is the most important political story of 2003." He pointed to Dean’s success as the outrage candidate and to a spate of right-critiquing books now hitting the bookstands, including Al Franken’s Lies (and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them), Joe Conason’s Big Lies: The Right-Wing Propaganda Machine and How It Distorts the Truth, and my own forthcoming work, The Lies of George W. Bush: Mastering the Politics of Deception, which he kindly predicted would become a bestseller. But Podhoretz claimed that The Angry Left is lost within the fog of its own ire. Its denizens, he said, suffer from Foxanoia -- the condition of obsessing over the influence of Fox News Channel -- and cannot "bear to admit" that "they lost an argument about the nature of terrorism, rogue nations and world power after 9/11." So instead of debating the merits of these matters, they blast Bush, Fox and Coulter for lying. "What aside from hating Bush and the Fox News Channel, do they believe in?" he asked -- as if the only thing The Angry Left has to offer is anger itself.

Oh, it’s easy to find examples of angry leftism run amok. I get e-mail all the time from outraged lefties (or liberals or progressives) who quite sincerely suggest that Bush has brought the country to the edge of fascism. Such loose and hyperbolic talk is foolish. But, even so, these outbursts do not match the extremism of hate that ran through parts of the conservative movement in the 1990s. At mainstream conservative conferences -- where GOP senators, representatives and presidential candidates spoke -- you could pick up bumperstickers that asked, "Where’s Lee Harvey Oswald when you need him?" And the Rev. Jerry Falwell was promoting a video that accused Bill Clinton of having murdered his political foes.

Back then, media commentators and left-of-center advocates derided the Right for being irate. Remember the shocking congressional election of 1994, in which Newt Gingrich led his fellow Republicans to a historic takeover of the House of Representatives? This feat was tagged as the triumph of "angry white men." Now the sanctimonious smugness is on the other foot.

But -- be warned, Podhoretz -- anger can be power, as those mad Caucasian guys demonstrated. The United States, the political analysts say, is ever more divided along partisan lines; there are fewer fabled swing voters. In such a world, elections tend to be won by the side that motivates more of its voters. And anger is a motivator. After all, would Bush have had a chance in 2000 if disgust and revenge had not been driving forces for many GOP voters? And Bush (per Karl Rove) eagerly exploited those emotions, as he campaigned for president as the fellow who would "restore" honor and integrity to the White House.

These days, anger-baiting is being adopted by some on the Right to duck the accusations made by The Angry Left and to discredit the accusers, who do have more to offer than mere anger, such as comprehensive health coverage, a fairer tax code, a safer workplace, tighter environmental safeguards. But if indeed Bush lied -- or, to be kind, misrepresented -- as he guided the nation into war, shouldn’t that cause a citizen to become upset? If Bush is saddling this nation with trillions of dollars in debt in order to grant tax cuts to millionaires who would get by fine without them, shouldn’t that provoke rage? It’s okay for Arnold Schwarzenegger to be mad-as-hell about a $10 billion or so shortfall in the Golden State’s budget. No one on the Right is mocking him as Angry Arnold. So how should the taxpayer who cleans Schwarzenegger’s shirts feel about a $500 billion national deficit? Anger is not what matters; the cause of the anger does.

Sure, lefties tend to be pissed off at Fox News Channel. But my hunch is they’re madder with Bush -- for good reason. Certainly, some of their anger still is fueled by non-policy issues, such as his less-than-honorable victory in 2000. Some of the wrath is akin to the I-can’t-believe-it outrage that was felt by anti-Clintonites: how could so many Americans fall for this phony scoundrel? But much of the anger has been stirred by Bush’s policy decisions and his use of dishonest arguments to support these actions. (You need an example? In a speech two days before he invaded Iraq, Bush said, "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised." But former deputy CIA director Richard Kerr, who is leading a review of prewar intelligence on Iraq, has said the intelligence was loaded with caveats and qualifiers and was based on circumstantial and inferential evidence. In other words, the intelligence was hardly no-doubt material.)

Bush’s actions and assertions are the issue. Understandably, it is easier for some on the Right to discount the critiques of Bush as no more than the out-of-touch reactions of sore losers (shades of 2000!) than it is for them to confront head-on the case against Bush. Derision can be an effective tool for Bush’s defenders. If his most fervent opponents can be cast as overly choleric, then their arguments need not be considered. Bush foes should expect the anger-baiting to continue, and they should hope that Bush critics counter it with the right mix of calm indignation and well-founded accusations.



To: Rascal who wrote (28091)9/18/2003 10:40:41 PM
From: Karen Lawrence  Respond to of 89467
 
More Questions For Cheney
Reps. Kucinich, Maloney and Sanders are members of the Subcommittee on National Security, Emerging Threats and International Relations.

September 17, 2003

The Honorable Dick Cheney
Vice President
Office of the Vice President of the United States
Eisenhower Executive Office Building
Washington, DC 20501

Dear Mr. Vice President:

On July 21, 2003, we sent a letter to you inquiring about your role in the dissemination of the disinformation that Iraq purchased uranium from Niger. We asked you ten questions relating to your direct personal visits to CIA's Iraq analysts; your request for an investigation of the Niger uranium claim that resulted in an investigation by a former U.S. ambassador, and your several high-profile public assertions about Iraq's alleged pursuit of nuclear weapons. To date, we have not received your response to our inquiries.

Since our last letter to you, you spoke at the American Enterprise Institute and once again made reference to the already proven false assertion that Iraq was reconstituting its nuclear weapons program. In order to legitimize the war, you cited findings listed in the National Intelligence Estimate (NIE), some of which had been refuted months before you cited them.

Most recently, on September 14, 2003, after almost a year of repeating the claim, you finally admitted the inaccuracy of your previous assertions on Iraq's nuclear capabilities when you appeared on Meet the Press. The chronology shows that you knew or should have known that the claim was false when you first made it on Meet the Press in March 2003. We would like to inquire as to why your admission took so long to be made publicly. We would also like answers to our previous questions about your role in the dissemination of the nuclear uranium claim.

I. Concerning "unusual" personal visits by the Vice President to CIA analysts.

According to The Washington Post, June 5, 2003, you made "multiple" "unusual" visits to CIA to meet directly with Iraq analysts. The Post reported: "Vice President Cheney and his most senior aide made multiple trips to the CIA over the past year to question analysts studying Iraq's weapons programs."

These visits were unprecedented. Normally, Vice Presidents, yourself included, receive regular briefings from CIA in your office and have a CIA officer on permanent detail. In other words, there is no reason for the Vice President to make personal visits to CIA analysts. According to the Post, your unprecedented visits created "an environment in which some analysts felt they were being pressured to make their assessments fit with the Bush administration's policy objectives."

On 'Meet the Press' on Sunday September 14, 2003, you dismissed The Washington Post article by suggesting that your frequent trips to the CIA were because of a longtime interest of yours in the field of intelligence. You also denied that your visits to the CIA had any impact on the changing of intelligence:

"In terms of asking questions, I plead guilty. I ask a hell of a lot of questions. That's my job. I've had an interest in the intelligence area since I worked for Gerry Ford 30 years ago, served on the Intel Committee in the House for years in the '80s, ran a big part of the intelligence community when I was secretary of Defense in the early '90s…Shouldn't be any pressure. I can't think of a single instance. Maybe somebody can produce one. I'm unaware of anywhere the community changed a judgment that they made because I asked questions."
Questions:

1) How many visits did you and your chief of staff make to CIA to meet directly with CIA analysts working on Iraq?

2) What was the purpose of each of these visits?

3) Did you ever meet with CIA analysts working on other intelligence matters, such as Al Qaeda?

4) Did you or a member of your staff at any time request or demand rewriting of intelligence assessments concerning the existence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?

II. Concerning a request by the Vice President to investigate intelligence of Niger uranium sale, revealing forgery one year ago.

This alleged sale of uranium to Iraq by Niger was critical to the administration's case that Iraq was reconstituting a nuclear weapons program. During the period of time you reportedly paid visits to CIA, you also requested that CIA investigate intelligence that purported to show Iraqi pursuit of uranium from Niger, and your office received a briefing on the investigation. According to The New York Times of May 6, 2003, "more than a year ago the vice president's office asked for an investigation of the uranium deal, so a former U.S. Ambassador to Africa was dispatched to Niger."

The ambassador "reported to the CIA and State Department that the information was unequivocally wrong and that the documents had been forged," according to the Times. Indeed, that former U.S. Ambassador, Joseph Wilson, wrote in The New York Times, July 6, 2003, "The vice president's office asked a serious question. We were asked to help formulate the answer. We did so, and we have every confidence that the answer we provided was circulated to the appropriate officials within our government."

Moreover, your chief of staff, Mr. Libby, told Time magazine this week that you did in fact express interest in the report to the CIA briefer. Our understanding is that Standard Operating Procedure is that if a principal asks about a report, he is given a specific answer.

On Meet the Press on Sunday September 14, 2003, contrary to Ambassador Wilson and Mr. Libby, you denied receiving Ambassador Wilson's findings in February, or March of 2002. You also denied sending Ambassador Wilson to look into the claim.

"I don't know Joe Wilson. I've never met Joe Wilson... I get a daily brief on my own each day before I meet with the president to go through the intel. And I ask lots of question. One of the questions I asked at that particular time about this, I said, "What do we know about this?" They take the question. He came back within a day or two and said, "This is all we know. There's a lot we don't know," end of statement... And Joe Wilson -- I don't who sent Joe Wilson."
Questions:

5) Who in the office of Vice President was informed of the contents of Ambassador Wilson's report?

6) When did you personally become informed of Ambassador Wilson's findings?

7) If the staff who took your question said, "This is all we know. There's a lot we don't know", why did you continue to use the shaky uranium claim in your public statements over the past year?

8) What efforts were made by your office to disseminate the findings of Ambassador Wilson's investigation to the President, National Security Adviser, and Secretary of Defense?

III. Speech by the Vice President to the American Enterprise Institute on July 25, 2003

In a speech to the American Enterprise Institute on July 25, 2003, you read from several sections of the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate (NIE). You said that the Administration could not ignore the findings in the NIE because doing so would be irresponsible. You said:

Those charged with the security of this nation could not read such an assessment and pretend that it did not exist. Ignoring such information, or trying to wish it away, would be irresponsible in the extreme. And our President did not ignore that information -- he faced it... Against this background, to disregard the NIE's warnings would have been irresponsible in the extreme. And our President did not ignore that information -- he faced it, and acted to remove the danger.
You cited the following sections of NIE as findings the President could not ignore:

"Baghdad has chemical and biological weapons, as well as missiles with ranges in excess of U.N. restrictions. If left unchecked, it probably will have a nuclear weapon during this decade... Since inspections ended in 1998, Iraq has maintained its chemical weapons effort, energized its missile program, and invested more heavily in biological weapons; in the view of most agencies, Baghdad is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program... Iraq is continuing, and in some areas expanding, its chemical, biological, nuclear and missile programs contrary to U.N. Resolutions."
What is concerning about your speech is that in your attempt to legitimize the cause for war with Iraq, you cited intelligence listed in the National Intelligence Estimate that had already been refuted before you spoke. Even more disturbing is that it was your office, the Office of the Vice President, that learned of the false uranium story seven months before the NIE was written and issued in October 2002.

Furthermore, questions have been raised about the intent of the drafting of the NIE document. Former CIA-analyst Ray McGovern, in an article printed in The Miami Herald on August 8, 2003 wrote:

Start with the fact that there was no NIE before the decision for war last summer. Such decisions are supposed to be based on the conclusions of NIEs, not the other way around. This time the process was reversed... The marketing rollout for the war was keynoted by the vice president, who in a shrill speech on Aug. 26 charged, "Saddam has resumed his efforts to acquire nuclear weapons." A NIE was then ordered up, essentially to support the extreme judgments voiced by Cheney, and its various drafts were used effectively to frighten members of Congress into voting to authorize war.
Because it appears as if the NIE may have been drafted so as to support certain claims for the war in Iraq, using it as a supporting document for intelligence that the President "could not ignore" is misleading and irresponsible.

9) Since your address to the AEI was delivered several months after the nuclear uranium claim had been disputed, on what basis did you make the claim that the President "could not ignore" the false nuclear findings in the NIE?

IV. Assertions by the Vice President and other high-ranking members of the Administration claiming Iraqi nuclear weapons program.

The President's erroneous reference to the faked Niger uranium sale in his State of the Union address was only one example of a pattern of similar assertions by high-ranking members of the administration, including you. The assertion was made repeatedly in the administration's campaign to win congressional approval of military action against Iraq.

For instance, you said to the 103d National Convention of the Veterans of Foreign Wars on August 26, 2002, "they [the Iraqi regime] continue to pursue the nuclear program they began so many years ago... we now know that Saddam has resumed his efforts to acquire nuclear weapons... Should all his ambitions be realized... [he could] subject the United States or any other nation to nuclear blackmail."

In sworn testimony before the House Armed Services Committee, just weeks before the House of Representatives voted to authorize military action against Iraq, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld testified on September 18, 2002:

"He [Saddam]... is pursuing nuclear weapons. If he demonstrates the capability to deliver them to our shores, the world would be changed. Our people would be at great risk. Our willingness to be engaged in the world, our willingness to project power to stop aggression, our ability to forge coalitions for multilateral action, could all be under question. And many lives could be lost."
Questions:

10) Since your address to the VFW occurred nearly 7 months after Ambassador Wilson reported his findings to the CIA and State Department, what evidence did you have for the assertion that Iraq was continuing "to pursue the nuclear program" and that Saddam had "resumed his efforts to acquire nuclear weapons"?

11) Since the Secretary of Defense testified to Congress that Iraq was "pursuing nuclear weapons" nearly 8 months after Ambassador Wilson's briefing to CIA and the State Department, what effort did you make to determine what evidence the Secretary of Defense had for his assertion to Congress?

Further refutation of the authenticity of the forged Niger documents came from IAEA Director General ElBaradei, when he reported to the U.N. Security Council on March 7, 2003: "These documents, which formed the basis for reports of recent uranium transactions between Iraq and Niger, are in fact not authentic. We have therefore concluded that these specific allegations are unfounded... we have found no evidence or plausible indication of the revival of a nuclear weapons programme in Iraq." Yet on March 16 -- nine days afterwards -- you again repeated the unfounded assertion on national television (Meet the Press, Sunday, March 16, 2003). You said:

"We think Mr. ElBaradei frankly is wrong," and "We believe [Saddam] has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."
On September 14, 2003, after almost a year of repeating the nuclear claim, you finally retracted your position on Iraq's nuclear capabilities when you appeared on Meet the Press. When asked about your March 16, 2003 Meet the Press interview in which you accused Mohammed ElBaradei of being wrong about Iraq not having reconstituted its nuclear weapons program, you said:

"Yeah. I did misspeak. I said repeatedly during the show weapons capability. We never had any evidence that he had acquired a nuclear weapon."
Question:

12) What accounts for the length of time it took you to publicly retract the Niger uranium claim?

We hope you will take the opportunity to answer these questions about your role in the dissemination of false information about Iraq's nuclear program to justify the war in Iraq. We look forward to a response.

Sincerely,

Dennis J. Kucinich
Ranking Minority Member
Subcommittee on National Security,
Emerging Threats and
International Relations

Carolyn B. Maloney
Member
Ranking Minority Member
Subcommittee on National Security,
Emerging Threats and
International Relations

Bernie Sanders
Member
Ranking Minority Member
Subcommittee on National Security,
Emerging Threats and
International Relations



To: Rascal who wrote (28091)9/20/2003 10:42:12 AM
From: stockman_scott  Respond to of 89467
 
Big Lie on Iraq Comes Full Circle
_______________________________

by Andrew Greeley

Published on Friday, September 19, 2003 by the Chicago Sun Times


Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's propaganda chief (director of communications, in the current parlance), once said that if you are going to lie, you should tell a big lie. That may be good advice, but the question remains: What happens when people begin to doubt the big lie? Herr Goebbels never lived to find out. Some members of the Bush administration may be in the process of discovering that, given time, the big lie turns on itself.

The president has insisted that Iraq is the central front in the war on terrorism, a continuation of the administration's effort to link Iraq to the attack on the World Trade Center. While almost three-quarters of the public believe that Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the attack, the polls after the president's recent speech show that less than half believe that Iraq is the ''central front'' of the war on terrorism. Moreover, the majority believe that the war has increased the risk of terrorism. A shift is occurring in the middle, which is neither clearly pro-Bush nor clearly anti-Bush. The big lie is coming apart.

There is not and never has been any evidence that Iraq was involved in the 9/11 attack. None. The implication of such involvement was an attempt to deceive, a successful attempt at the big lie.

I'm not sure that the president knows it is a lie, however.

Also, the weapons of mass destruction story was never true. It now appears that Saddam panicked in 1995 when his sons-in-law defected to Jordan and revealed the truth about his weapons development. He immediately ordered the destruction of all the evidence. The U.N. team before the war would have no more found any weapons than the Americans after the war.

Again, I'm not sure that the president knew the weapons argument was false. Perhaps some of his advisers believed it, or, as the Irish say, half-believed it. However, the American people now seem to suspect that they haven't been told the truth.

Why, then, did the United States invade Iraq if the reasons given for the war were so problematic? It would seem that the answer was the same as the reason as for climbing Mt. Everest: Iraq was there. The administration recited the ''war on terror'' mantra as a pretext for doing something that its intellectuals had wanted to do for years. No one in the administration expected that such a war would lead to more dangers of terrorism rather than less. The mantra has been used as an excuse for many things, from the Patriot Act to drilling for oil in Alaska. It won the 2002 election for the Republicans. It is supposed to win the presidential election next year. Will the big lie work? Perhaps, though it would seem that some are growing skeptical about its constant repetition.

Moreover, the corollary mantra, which says that Americans must make sacrifices to win the war on terror, is also in trouble. Who makes the sacrifices? The rich Americans celebrating their tax ''refunds''? The Republican leadership who have few if any sons and daughters in harm's way? Giant corporations like Dick Cheney's Halliburton or Bechtel? No, the sacrifices will be made mostly by the sons and daughters of the poor and the working class who must fight the war. Jessica Lynch joined the army so she could get money for a college education. Her roommate Lori Piestewa, who was killed in action, joined because she was a Native American single mother who needed the money to raise her two children.

There will be sacrifices made by schoolchildren who depend on state and local money, which has disappeared into the ''war effort,'' the elderly who will not benefit from prescription drug reform; the working men whose overtime pay the president wishes to cut; the chronically unemployed whose jobs have disappeared, and the future generations who will have to work to pay off the president's huge debt.

''War on terror'' is a metaphor. It is not an actual war, like the World War or the Vietnamese or Korean wars. It is rather a struggle against fanatical Islamic terrorists, exacerbated if not caused by the conflict in Palestine. When one turns a metaphor into a national policy, one not only misunderstands what is going on, one begins to slide toward the big lie. One invades Iraq because one needed a war.

Copyright © The Sun-Times Company


commondreams.org



To: Rascal who wrote (28091)9/22/2003 9:47:03 AM
From: stockman_scott  Respond to of 89467
 
The Challenge for Clark-- and for all of us

prometheusspeaks.blogspot.com

<<...Wesley Clark is a very bright and complex thinker who must adapt to dealing with simple-minded journalists looking for sensationalist headlines. The current state of journalism may be the greatest factor in dumbing down debate in this country and discouraging our best people from seeking public office. The rules of the game do not tolerate meaningful distinctions no matter how logical and reasonable they might be. Especially in our media driven society, politics favors simple thoughts, black-and-white thinking and soundbites.

This is the environment which allows someone like George W. Bush to first be elected and then be perceived as a strong and decisive leader by most of the electorate. He keeps it simple, which for him isn’t really a choice. You are with him or against him; you’re on the side of righteousness or evil; you invade a country and topple a regime or concede defeat in the war on terror.

Conservatives viewed Clinton as indecisive because he not only had the ability to see all sides, his thought process generally demanded that he do so. Although his communication skills were phenomenal, he lacked Bush’s certitude. Of course, to progressives, Bush’s certitude is seen as obnoxious, close-minded hubris. Still, many of us, even progressives, are too quick to find fault when someone else’s thinking doesn’t fit into a ready-made framework with which we are comfortable. This is the environment in which Wesley Clark has entered...>>



To: Rascal who wrote (28091)9/22/2003 11:09:44 AM
From: stockman_scott  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 89467
 
Profile: Wesley Clark

observer.guardian.co.uk

<<...In the end only time and the primaries will tell. But if he wins, if somehow the General pulls it off, some in the Democratic Party believe in an inspiring dream. In it Bush, their flight-suit wearing enemy who has styled himself a Warrior President, will be coming up against the Real Thing. The dream is called Victory...>>