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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Srexley who wrote (461682)	9/19/2003 11:56:50 AM
From: TigerPaw	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 769667

I'm just pointing out that the revisionist line that Iraq was invaded for the good of the Iraqi people is Horse**t. There are many oppressed people, the difference is they don't all have oil. Never once in period since the PNAC thought up this invasion has there been any request from inside Iraq for the Americans to invade. The oil grab failed, and there is no longer a reason for the invasion, only consequences. TP

To: Srexley who wrote (461682)	9/19/2003 12:08:25 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 769667

Srexley, re: >>"But you [liberals] are selfish and petty, and would rather attack our own country instead."<< If I were you I'd get down on my knees in thanks for the kind of people that you refer to as liberals. If it weren't for people that thought like them, you'd live in a far different country. The concepts of idealism, risking security for personal freedoms and placing justice above short term personal interests are deeply rooted in those that you consider liberals. It's true that there are times when it's necessary to take a more practical approach to government, but those times are rare and this isn't one of them, at least not to the extent that all of you "save me the sky is falling and I'm so frightened" hawks believe. Our country truly is under "attack." The attack is not coming from the "liberals," however, it's coming from our current administration, the ultra-conservative right and those simpletons that are so stupid that they are rabid supporters of those who laugh at their sheepish mallability-that's you by the way. What you fail to see is that 9/11 attacks only a building and kills only a few of us. On the other hand, the reaction to a 9/11 from this administration has killed and is killing much of what makes this "country" the kind of nation that we and much of the world treasure. America is not a place. America is not a race of people. America is an idea. It is ALL about the concepts of government by the people and for the people. It is about the entitlement to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is about justice and the protections of the Bill Of Rights. It is about curbing the power of government with regard to individual freedoms. It is about tolerance of those with other religions, other races, other cultures and other views. It is about friendship with other nations and other cultures. It is about placing ideals above power and wealth so that the rules are fair and the American dream is not destroyed. Those ideas require intellectual vitality so that they are recognized and preserved during times that our emotions threaten to obscure and destroy them. They require that we look far into the future so that we always protect the ideas even if, in the short term, the costs of protecting the ideas are greater than the costs of eroding them. Those that are too stupid or too lazy to see the abstract principles that make America great are the greatest threat to our continued survival and to the creation of a better world for all peoples. For those of you who believe that 9/11 gave America the right to ignore international law, to detour to a "might makes right" course, to empower men in government to destroy some of our most important constitutionally protected individual rights in the name of "safety," to shout down all of those that disagreed as enemies or traitors, to kill and destroy in the name of "self defense," and to do it all under the banner of "America," I have something to say; you are attacking the essence of America, you are traitors to American ideals and if those who sacrificed, fought and died in wars, in framing the constitution, in creating workers rights and voting rights and civil rights were alive today, I believe they would unite in opposition to the policies of the Bush Administration and against those of you who support it. You should be ashamed.

To: Srexley who wrote (461682)	9/19/2003 12:25:37 PM
From: GST	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769667

We invaded a sovereign nation -- that is a serious matter. If we did it to rid them of wmd's that they intended to use on us, then fine. But they never had the capability to strike us -- ever. And it appears that they destroyed their third world "arsenal" back in 91. If we invaded because the people who attacked us on 9/11 were based there and were well-integrated and supported by Saddam, then fine. But the links are someplace between non-existent and trivial in a region where countries like Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and others provide environments where terrorists flourish. As for establishing "democracy", that will take decades to evaluate and the odds are, to put it mildly, not that great. In the mean time, terrorism is flourishing in Iraq in the environment we ourselves have created. Americans die every day. We have alienated key allies. We have stretched our military too thin and now have trouble responding to real threats because we are bogged down in Iraq. And there is no end in sight. To be critical of an Administration that would put the United States in such a stupid position is not the same as being critical of "America" -- it is to express concern for the damage that is being done to "America" by the President and his closest advisors.