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Politics : Stockman Scott's Political Debate Porch -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: techguerrilla who wrote (28145)9/19/2003 2:25:44 PM
From: jlallen  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 89467
 
Yes...I agree. GWB is best when he is speaking inspirationally off the cuff.....the Iraqi people needed to be reassured that US would not leave until the job was done and those words fit the bill......perfectly!

JLA



To: techguerrilla who wrote (28145)9/19/2003 2:33:18 PM
From: laura_bush  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 89467
 
Hey there, TG...how goes it up in the Windy City?

Always nice to see you on the boards.

Bush sux, doesn't he?

<gg>

Kind Regards,
lb



To: techguerrilla who wrote (28145)9/19/2003 3:07:23 PM
From: lurqer  Respond to of 89467
 
wouldn't be surprised to see Bush drop so much in the public opinion polls that he decides not to run for reelection next year.

I can only hope.

Damn good to hear from you again! Hope all is well. When last I dwelled in the Great Lakes area, I always had a little trepidation this time of year, for I knew what was coming. So to paraphrase Hobbes, may your winter be warm, pleasant and short.

Best wishes.

lurqer



To: techguerrilla who wrote (28145)9/19/2003 4:02:27 PM
From: lurqer  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 89467
 
BTW, in case you haven't seen

Message 19322963

lurqer



To: techguerrilla who wrote (28145)9/19/2003 4:10:03 PM
From: Karen Lawrence  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 89467
 
Bush says "Bring 'em on." We say "BRING THEM HOME NOW!"
bringthemhomenow.org

BRING THEM HOME NOW! is a campaign of military families, veterans, active duty personnel, reservists and others opposed to the ongoing war in Iraq and galvanized to action by George W. Bush's inane and reckless challenge to armed Iraqis resisting occupation to "Bring 'em on."

Our mission is to mobilize military families, veterans, and GIs themselves to demand: an end to the occupation of Iraq and other misguided military adventures; and an immediate return of all US troops to their home duty stations.

The truth is coming out. The American public was deceived by the Bush administration about the motivation for and intent of the invasion of Iraq. It is equally apparent that the administration is stubbornly and incompetently adhering to a destructive course. Many Americans do not want our troops there. Many military families do not want our troops there. Many troops themselves do not want to be there. The overwhelming majority of Iraqis do not want US troops there.


Our troops are embroiled in a regional quagmire largely of our own government's making. These military actions are not perceived as liberations, but as occupations, and our troops are now subject to daily attacks. Meanwhile, without a clear mission, they are living in conditions of relentless austerity and hardship. At home, their families are forced to endure extended separations and ongoing uncertainty.

As military veterans and families, we understand that hardship is sometimes part of the job. But there has to be an honest and compelling reason to impose these hardships and risks on our troops, our families, and our communities. The reasons given for the occupation of Iraq do not rise to this standard.

Without just cause for war, we say bring the troops home now!

Not one more troop killed in action. Not one more troop wounded in action. Not one more troop psychologically damaged by the act of terrifying, humiliating, injuring or killing innocent people. Not one more troop spending one more day inhaling depleted uranium. Not one more troop separated from spouse and children. This is the only way to truly support these troops, and the families who are just as much part of the military as they are.

Bush says "Bring 'em on." We say "BRING THEM HOME NOW!"



To: techguerrilla who wrote (28145)9/20/2003 8:06:23 AM
From: stockman_scott  Respond to of 89467
 
<<...Like Ike and Grant, Clark has the authority to denounce a misbegotten military adventure. His experience can assure voters that restraint in his case will not mean an abdication of America's global leadership role...>>

Following the tradition of generals who make peace
By David Greenberg
HISTORY NEWS SERVICE
Posted on Sat, Sep. 20, 2003
tallahassee.com

General Wesley Clark's entry into the Democratic presidential contest has delighted voters opposed to the administration's war policies and hungry for a candidate with national security bona fides. A four-star general who led the war in Kosovo, Clark has also been an outspoken critic of President Bush's foreign policies.

Clark's detractors, however, offer this warning to his Democratic fans: Most Americans have supported Bush's post-9-11 adventurism. Clark's epaulets, these skeptics insist, won't make his dovishness any more palatable to the public.

Yet to dismiss Clark's prospects for electoral success as a liberal delusion is to misread the historic allure of military officers as presidential contenders. Generals who have become president (there were 10, six of them notable as commanders) have usually succeeded by presenting themselves as bearers not of war but of peace. They do so because of the public's long-standing ambivalence about military heroes in politics.

Americans, to be sure, expect their leaders to be tough. During both the Cold War and the post-Sept. 11 period, politicians often won followings with bellicose and chauvinistic rhetoric.

But the American appetite for militarism has limits. The colonial struggle against British occupation forces in the Revolutionary era instilled an enduring skepticism about permanent armies, and the founding fathers pointedly placed the armed forces under civilian authority. Remote from Europe, the United States sought, in its idealized self-portrait, to be a peace-loving country. (The wars against American Indians were left out of the story.)

Accommodating such ambivalence, generals have taken to emulating Cincinnatus of ancient Rome, who famously heeded the call to leave his farm and defend the city, only to return voluntarily to his plow after victory had been secured. In his own day, George Washington was explicitly likened to that Roman general: Having led the Revolutionary army, Washington retired to Mount Vernon, then answered the call once more when the new nation needed a president.

Largely because of Washington's example, other office-seeking generals cast themselves as nonpolitical public servants. They disavowed all personal ambition and entered politics as if bowing to public demand.

In 1840, William Henry Harrison, a hero of the Indian wars, professed selfless public service as the rationale for his candidacy, as did the Mexican War veteran Zachary Taylor in 1848. So a century later did Dwight D. Eisenhower, the victorious commander of the Allies in Europe during World War II, who cultivated an aura of nonpartisanship so skillfully that even the Democrats tried in vain to get him to bear their standard.

In this respect, Clark has played the Cincinnatus role beautifully. For a long time (maybe longer than was plausible), he refused to identify with either party, outing himself as a Democrat just this month. And he has appeared to revel in the "Draft Clark" outfits that have emerged at the grass roots, as if he were capitulating to public demand.

Beyond reluctance for politics, the Cincinnatus archetype also entails a disavowal of warmongering. Here, too, Clark is following the tradition of generals entering high office. Although Ulysses S. Grant won fame during the Civil War for his ferocity, his battlefront glory lent him credibility as a peacemaker. After the Confederacy's surrender at Appomattox, he squelched his soldiers' gloating, telling them that "the rebels are our countrymen again." In accepting the Republican Party's presidential nomination in 1868, he concluded, "Let us have peace."

Similarly, Eisenhower pledged just before the 1952 election to go to Korea, to make peace in a frustrating and demoralizing war. No one dared call the hero of World War II soft on communism. In contrast, his rival, Gen. Douglas MacArthur, could never subordinate his martial persona to a softer peacetime profile, and he never advanced in the political arena.

Like Ike and Grant, Clark has the authority to denounce a misbegotten military adventure. His experience can assure voters that restraint in his case will not mean an abdication of America's global leadership role.

Whether Clark sinks or soars on the campaign trail will hinge on many variables. But he has historical precedents on his side. He doesn't seem to hunger for the presidency, and - just as important - neither does he hunger for war.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Greenberg is the author of "Nixon's Shadow: The History of an Image" (2003). He teaches history science at Yale University and is a writer for the History News Service. Contact him at david.greenberg@yale.edu.