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To: Skeeter Bug who wrote (13875)	9/23/2003 6:45:23 PM
From: Lizzie Tudor	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 306849

are people really against programs for the poor though? I don't hear a huge amount of dissention about programs for the poor. The problem is how you characterize the poor. Government programs have this nasty habit of looking at income as a sort of barometer of wealth and that doesn't work at all.

To: Skeeter Bug who wrote (13875)	9/24/2003 10:56:59 AM
From: GraceZ	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 306849

what would you want to happen if you and your 9 month old kid were broke with no roof on your head, no education, abusive parents who mistreated you and distorted your world view... I came from there, I was that child. Social programs trap people there, they don't help people escape, they suck in more people. Why do you think the demand for such services always runs just ahead of supply? I know what it takes to escape simply because I have, as have many of the people I grew up with including the ones who are descended from former slaves. Back in the sixties and seventies when I was in and out of children's homes and foster homes I would be the only one in my class of 30 who came from such a back ground even though out of the 14 different schools I attended there were inner city schools (Newark, NJ and Hackensack, NJ) and poor rural schools (Maine). Now in any inner city school you'll find half or more of the kids in the class are involved with child welfare in some way and you'll find it is the exception rather than the rule for them to live in a household with two parents. When the state takes over the roll of the parent, the parent tends to ditch their responsibility and ditch they have in very large numbers. The social programs, in their attempt to help, have grown this monstrous problem. I can tell you first hand that the state makes a truly lousy parent. In my case it was the lessor of two evils but I can't help thinking that if the state hadn't stepped in that someone from my very large extended family would have and this is the root of the evil. These programs allow people to shirk their responsibility to their own family and this is true not only with children but with elderly parents and the disabled as well.