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To: glenn_a who wrote (1016)	9/25/2003 1:25:52 AM
From: abuelita	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 110194

glenn- your posts were most extraordinary and very compelling. they brought to mind taylor caldwell's 'captains and kings'. i appreciate very much your taking the time to explain your viewpoint further. rose

To: glenn_a who wrote (1016)	9/25/2003 2:19:58 AM
From: abuelita	Respond to of 110194

Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, for example, suddenly emerged out of nowhere to gain the presidency. In fact, they were groomed by these elites, as all Presidential "winners" inevitably are. Their presidential campaigns are "narratives", carefully crafted scripts, echoed by the corporate-owned media to justify their emergence and victory. in other words, were dean or clark to emerge as the winner in the next presidential election, it would be as a direct result of the efforts of these "geopolitical elites" to place him there. he will have been chosen - and not by the people. he will be 'their' man. yes. i believe that.

To: glenn_a who wrote (1016)	9/25/2003 4:02:21 PM
From: el_gaviero	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 110194

Glenn, Ask a question, get an answer. Still, I’m not convinced. All of your bad guys --- Rockefeller, Khun/Loeb, Cecil Rhodes,etc --- and the places you mentioned where they were “bad together” (e.g. Jekyll Island) were of a hundred years ago. People with power have to have some way of impinging upon people without power. I don’t feel impinged upon very much by any capitalist that I know of, except maybe Bill Gates, and he is nothing more than an aggravation. Not so the Beltway Mafiosi. They impinge upon me in an endless number of ways. Every four months I send off monstrous checks to them --- more than to my son’s private college, more than to my wife for household expenses, more than to any single other thing. If I don’t send the money, I lose my property. If I resist, they kill me. I call that impinging. The Beltway Mafiosi have laws that discriminate against my son, because his skin is white. They have laws they tell me who I can and cannot hire, who I can and cannot sell my house to, etc. etc. Hell, they have some rule or regulation requiring that a sticker be affixed to the top step of my step-ladder telling me that that the top step of my step-ladder is not a step. I am 40 percent a slave and I dispute every single percent. Say what you will, Glenn, the Beltway Mafia has power over me. Your capitalist does not. He is helpless, defenseless, a contemptible slinking cur. The top five percent pay 50 or 60 percent of the taxes. Some elite. Why am I ranting? Partly because just thinking about Washington gets me riled up. But there is a bit of a serious point behind my rant. Present arrangements hugely benefit the Washington political establishment. I think for that reason they hardly pay attention to Greenspan. They see him trying to preserve the status quo, and are happy to leave him alone. They don’t see the difficulties that we do. If we are right, and difficulties arrive, we will be winners. This is because we will have been able to position ourselves advantageously. Relatively speaking, Washington will be a loser. If we are right, and if we make the right moves, and if we are lucky, maybe in time we will only be 20 percent a slave. That 20 percent is worth fighting for and is why I am in the game, and is also why I appreciate many on this board who are smarter than I am, and who are generous with their knowledge. Ah, but wait. Matters are not so simple. We are in a game in which our opponent is out to make us as much of a slave as possible. Yes. The one point that I want to make is that in this game our opponent has an advantage. He can change the rules of the game at any moment. How is he going to change the rules? We don’t know in detail, but we do know that he will do so in such a way as to retain his 40 percent. Anyway, that’s why I say: pay attention to the power game behind the money game. Out of the power game will emerge the most dangerous problems that we are going to have to face. When the dangerous curve balls are coming out way, we will know that the crisis is full blown, and that Washington has awakened. Glenn, I liked your attempt to depersonalize the money game, and see behind it a power game. It is just that by no stretch of the imagination can I buy your story that capitalists are the ultimate movers. Quite the opposite. They are biggest sycophants and toadies around --- cash cows for the sovereign, and damn docile cows at that.