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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Alighieri who wrote (175666)9/30/2003 7:21:26 PM
From: TimF  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1578942
 
I am rather literal but I think it is important to hold people accountable for what they said rather then some imagined hidden message that you think they want other people to believe. And if you must attack them for the imagined hidden message then you should be direct and upfront about it IMO. Something like "yes he really said X, but by X he really meant Y and Z, so who cares if X is true.".

Also while I understand that the importance of saying Iraqi agents met with Atta goes beyond the alleged fact itself, it certainly is an attempt to accuse Saddam's regime of having had contacts with Al Qaeda. And if you think it is utter nonsense to make that second claim then its understandable that you bash Bush and Co. a bit for making it, but there is no way to establish that Bush or Cheney meant that Saddam was behind 9/11 so they should not be accused of having made that statement. In fact several administration officials have explicitly said there is no evidence of Saddam being responsible for or contributing to 9/11. In light of that fact it would seem that you are the one using innuendo to feed perception but at least I'm pretty sure that you aren't being naive about it...

Tim



To: Alighieri who wrote (175666)10/1/2003 11:35:38 PM
From: tejek  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 1578942
 
<font color=brown> I thought you would like this one. For a change, the truth!<font color=black>

*********************************************

c1.zedo.com

The truth about lies: An excerpt from a Franken best-seller

By Al Franken / Guest Columnist
Sunday, September 21, 2003

Clinton the murderer and other tall tales the right-wing media buys into.

<font color=red>Asking whether there is a liberal or conservative bias to the mainstream media is a little like asking whether al-Qaida uses too much oil in their hummus. The problem with al Qaeda is that they're trying to kill us.<font color=black>

The right-wing media tells us constantly that the problem with the mainstream media is that it has a liberal bias. I don't think it does. But there are other, far more important, biases in the mainstream media than liberal or conservative ones.

Most of these biases stem from something called "the profit motive." This is why we often see a bias toward the Sensational, involving Scandal, and, hopefully Sex or Violence, or please, please, pleeeze, both.

And there's the Easy-and-Cheap-to-Cover bias, which is why almost all political coverage is about process and horse race and not about policy. Why have an in-depth report on school vouchers when two pundits who've spent five minutes in the green room looking over a couple of articles Xeroxed by an intern can just scream at each other about the issue on the air?

There's the Get-It-First bias. Remember the 2000 election? I believe there were some problems there associated with that one. Pack Mentality. Negativity. Soft News. The Don't-Offend-the-Conglomerate-That-Owns-Us bias. And, of course, the ever-present bias of Hoping There's a War to Cover.

Does the mainstream media have a liberal bias? On a couple of things, maybe. Compared to the American public at large, probably a slightly higher percentage of journalists, because of their enhanced power of discernment, realize they know a gay person or two, and are, therefore, less frightened of them.

But to believe there is a liberal political bias in the mainstream media, you'd have to either not be paying attention or just be very susceptible to repetition. Yes, we've heard it over and over and over again. For decades. The media elite is an arm of the Democratic National Committee.


Anyone notice the mainstream media's coverage of Clinton? For 18 months, it was all Monica, all the time. There were a few news organizations that did not succumb to this temptation, and I like to cite them whenever I can: Sailing magazine, American Grocer Monthly, Juggs and Big Butt (which is ironic, because I think Big Butt had a story).

How about the 2000 presidential campaign? Remember when, in the first debate, Al Gore said he had gone to a disaster site in Texas with Federal Emergency Management Agency director James Lee Witt? Actually, it turned out that he had gone to that disaster with a deputy of Witt. As vice president, Gore had gone to 17 other disasters with Witt, but not that one.

The press jumped all over him. There were scores of stories written about how Gore had lied about Witt. It was as if Witt had been the most popular man in the United States of America and Gore was lying to get some of that Witt magic to rub off on him.

<font color=red>Contrast that with the media's reaction to this Bush description of his tax cut in the very same debate: "I also dropped the bottom rate from 15 percent to 10 percent, because, by far, the vast majority of the help goes to the people at the bottom end of the economic ladder." "By far, the vast majority . . . goes to the people at the bottom." That is what Bush told America.

The truth is that the bottom 60 percent got 14.7 percent. Gee, that's a pretty significant misstatement, don't you think? More important than whether a Texas fire was one of the 17 disasters you went to with Witt. So what was the reaction of the liberal mainstream press?<font color=black>

Nothing.

Do I believe that this was because the mainstream media has a conservative bias? No. I just think the attitude of the press was "He doesn't know! He doesn't know! Leave the man alone! He doesn't know!"

But, of course, he did. Which is why Bush said he doesn't mind being "misunderestimated." Because by "misunderestimated," Bush means being underestimated for the wrong reason. The media thought he was kind of stupid. He isn't. He's just shamelessly dishonest.


<font color=red>The mainstream media does not have a liberal bias. And for all their other biases mentioned above, the mainstream media -- ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, The New York Times, The Washington Post, Time, Newsweek and the rest -- at least try to be fair.<font color=black>

There is, however, a right-wing media: Fox News. The Washington Times. The New York Post. The editorial pages of the Wall Street Journal. Talk radio. They are biased. And they have an agenda.

<font color=red>The members of the right-wing media are not interested in conveying the truth. That's not what they're for. They are an indispensable component of the right-wing machine that has taken over our country.

They employ a tried-and-true methodology. First, they concoct an inflammatory story that serves their political goals. ("Al Gore's a liar.") They repeat it. ("Al Gore lies again!") They embellish it. ("Are his lies pathological, or are they merely malicious?") They try to push it into the mainstream media. All too often, they succeed.<font color=black>

Occasionally, they fail. (Despite their efforts, the mainstream media never picked up the Clinton-as-murderer stories.) But even their failures serve their agenda, as evidence of liberal bias.

They used these tactics to cripple Clinton's presidency. They used them to discredit Gore and put Bush into office. And they're using them now to silence Bush's critics.

Bush is getting away with murder -- just like Clinton did. See? That's how insidious the right-wing modus operandi is. Even I bought into the Clinton murder thing there for a second. And that's my point. We have to be vigilant.


<font color=red>And we have to fight back. We have to expose those who bear false witness for the false witness bearers that they are. And we have to do it in a straightforward, plainspoken way.

Let's call them what they are: liars. Lying, lying liars.<font color=black>

Al Franken recently served as a Fellow with Harvard's Kennedy School of government at the Shorenstein Center on the Press, Politics and Public Policy.



To: Alighieri who wrote (175666)10/1/2003 11:39:29 PM
From: tejek  Respond to of 1578942
 
archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com

Nation & World: Sunday, September 21, 2003

Colorado town fuming after commemorative mountaintop flag defiled

By David Kelly
Los Angeles Times


FRISCO, Colo. — Ask residents about the flag on the mountain and they may shake their heads, grimace or just walk away.

But they all want to know why.

"No one can believe it," said Wayne Sharrar, owner of ' Time Barber Shop on Main Street. "Whoever did it was a coward."

His client Gary Severson frowned.

"It's deplorable," he said.

The enormous American flag fluttering atop a local mountain to commemorate the Sept. 11 terrorist victims was slashed with knives and then torched last weekend.

The culprit, who hiked at least four hours to reach the 12,805-foot peak, left a handwritten letter with a rambling denunciation of U.S. foreign policy, the World Trade Organization and the International Monetary Fund. Accompanying the note was literature likening the flag to a Nazi swastika.

The incident stunned this laid-back ski town of 2,500.

"I know a lot of people may not like the flag, but to go all the way up there and do what they did is ridiculous," said Kurt Kizer, 34, who organized the flag planting atop the mountain known as Peak One.

"We did this as a memorial to those who died that day. We didn't do it to support any administration or beliefs of any kind."




At 9,100 feet, this former silver-mining town seems an unlikely place for a flag burning. Not only is it remote and predominantly Republican, it also hosts one of the largest Fourth of July celebrations in the region.

"I think the whole thing is tragic," said Don Peterson, 71, who flies a flag outside his house every day. "I'm an Air Force veteran, and it just burns me up."

Summit County Sheriff Joseph Morales contacted the FBI because of the anti-American rhetoric in the letter and out of concern about who might be behind it. He said flag burning, ruled legal by the Supreme Court, still is a misdemeanor offense in Colorado. He also is considering filing arson and criminal-mischief charges.

"I support freedom of speech, but this is outrageous," said Morales, a Marine Corps veteran. "It's a knife at the heart of the community, and we won't tolerate it. You just can't burn other people's property."

Mark Silverstein, legal director for the American Civil Liberties Union of Colorado, said prosecuting someone for flag burning would fail. Along with the Supreme Court, the Colorado Supreme Court ruled in 1973 that state statutes forbidding the mutilation or defilement of the flag were unconstitutional.

Silverstein said notifying the FBI would be acceptable if there was evidence of terrorist links, not simply if someone questioned American policy.

"If the sheriff is taking expressions of disagreement with government policy as evidence of terrorist proclivity, then this is out of line," he said. "Law enforcement needs to know the difference between dissent and terrorism."

White River National Forest, where the flag was burned, has had problems before. Members of the radical Earth Liberation Front (ELF), who recently took credit for burning SUVs as well as an apartment development in Southern California, claimed responsibility for setting fire to the Two Elk Lodge near Vail, Colo., in 1998. They ignited six other fires the same night, causing an estimated $12 million in damage.

Morales said his agency is trying to determine if there are links between ELF and the recent incident.

The flag burning is especially sensitive because of a recent controversy over whether the flag belonged on the summit.

Shortly after the attacks in 2001, Kizer and other town residents put a flag on the mountain as a memorial. The flag could be seen from the highway and neighboring towns. Forest Service regulations expressly prohibited memorials on public lands, but rangers chose to ignore the flag rather than invite controversy by taking it down.

Kizer and 25 others hiked to the peak Sept. 12, held a ceremony and erected a new flag to replace one tattered after two years of exposure to the elements. It was burned within two days.

"It's ridiculous that someone got so upset that they went all the way up there to do that," said Dave Philips, 47, part-owner of a Frisco jewelry store.

Copyright © 2003 The Seattle Times Company