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Politics : Stockman Scott's Political Debate Porch -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: t2 who wrote (29635)10/5/2003 5:40:53 PM
From: stockman_scott  Respond to of 89467
 
Message 19372109



To: t2 who wrote (29635)10/5/2003 6:11:53 PM
From: lurqer  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 89467
 
Given that I believe that humans are genetically "equipped" to communicate in a face-to-face environment, I try to remain mindful of the ease of misunderstanding, that posting on these threads presents. Hence, I will only say that I think I may understand your post. Agreeing? Hmmmm...

While in no way trying to defend the behavior of the family Assad, past or present, let's consider for a while their behavior since 9-11. I don't have a link handy, but it's my understanding that Syria was surprisingly cooperative in providing information – very valuable information. Some, who have thought about the depth of their cooperation, believe they were trying to “make nice”. Whether this was out of fear, or because we were the remaining super power, or whatever, was apparently never explored. Instead, the neo-cons had their ideology and agenda. A new burgeoning relationship between the U.S. and Syria, wasn’t the role that was already typed in for Syria. So, from Syria’s perspective, after trying to demonstrate cooperation, the “payoff” was the Axis-of-evil. Now, I have no way of knowing, what a different approach would have yielded. To have even considered a different approach would have required not lumping all groups that practiced terrorism together, and branding them as our enemy. Which we didn’t. Most people don’t consider the IRA, or the Basque separatists as enemies of the U.S., but because it was convenient, all Islamic terrorists, and the Columbian rebels were lumped - and we’re at war with them. While this dovetailed nicely with where the neo-cons wanted to take the country, I’m not sure that direction was best for the U.S.’s future. An alternative would have been to concentrate on international terrorists with a global reach, and to have carefully distinguished between the problems of the U.S. and those of Israel.

As we know, such a course was not taken. Instead, we invaded Iraq. So in Muslim eyes, we are now guilty of the same “sin” as Israel – we’ve invaded and occupied a piece of the ummah. And, big surprise, we now have some of the same problems. And dealing with them in the same ineffective way. When you come across a swamp full of alligators, I suppose you could jump in and start flailing away with the biggest stick you can find, but that seems to me to be an invitation to get bitten. I’d rather toss in some bait, and see if I could get the gators to fight each other. In a similar fashion, why not develop a well-considered plan to deal with our specific problem in the ME, than to use it as a springboard for hegemony Then all kinds of possibilities occur. You can use the carrot (bait), instead of just the stick. If Syria wants a rapprochement, fine, reward that behavior, establish the relationship, and just when the image of the significant benefits of the new relationship are coming into focus, you say “Oh, by the way, all of this comes at a price. A kind of code of ethics for civilized nations.” Now for this to have any force, the same face must be turned toward Israel.

It’s not that I don’t believe in ever using the “stick”, it’s more like I believe that using it is a kind of admission of failure. If I’d been a little bit smarter, maybe …But in the real world, evil exists and there are some really bad dudes. Sometimes, only the last resort works. With this approach, you never get hegemony. It’s more like a flavor of “walk softly and carry a big stick”.

Just have a strong preference for the clever carrot over the stick.

lurqer



To: t2 who wrote (29635)10/5/2003 11:46:48 PM
From: stockman_scott  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 89467
 
Israel's attack is a lethal step towards war in Middle East
_____________________

By Robert Fisk
6 October 2003
The Independent

Israel received the Green Light. It came from what is called the Syria Accountability Act, moving through the United States Congress with the help of Israel's supporters, that will impose sanctions on Damascus for its supposed enthusiasm for "terrorism" and occupation of Lebanon.

Speaker after speaker in the past week has been warning that Syria is the new - or old, or non-existent - threat previously represented by Iraq: that it has weapons of mass destruction, that it has biological warheads, that it received Iraq's non-existent weapons of mass destruction just before we began our illegal invasion of Iraq in March.

The Israeli lie about "thousands" of Iranian Revolutionary Guards in the Bekaa Valley in Lebanon has been uncloaked yet again. In reality, there hasn't been an Iranian militant in Lebanon for 20 years. But who cares? The dictatorial Syrian regime - and dictatorial it most decidedly is - has to be struck after a Jenin woman lawyer, who has probably never visited Damascus in her life, blows herself and 19 innocent Israelis up in Haifa. And why not? If America can strike Afghanistan for the international crimes against humanity of 11 September 2001, when 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis, and if America can invade Iraq, which had absolutely nothing to do with 11 September, why shouldn't Israel strike Syria?

Yes, Syria does support Hamas and Islamic Jihad. But in Iraq is based the Mujahideen Khalq, which bombs Iran, and the Americans have not bombed them. In Jerusalem exists a government that openly threatens the life of Yasser Arafat but no one suggests action should be taken against the Israeli administration.

In Jerusalem lives a prime minister, Ariel Sharon, who was adjudicated to be "personally responsible" by Israel's own Kahane commission of enquiry for the massacre of up to 1,700 Palestinian civilians at the Sabra and Chatila refugee camps in Beirut in 1982. But he is not going on trial for war crimes.

Of course, Syria is going to take the air strikes on the training base" of Islamic Jihad to the United Nations. Much good will it do Damascus. When the United States cannot bring itself to support a resolution condemning Israel's threat to murder Arafat, when it will not stop the Israelis building 600 more houses - for Jews and Jews only - on Palestinian land, air raids on Syria simply don't matter.

Perhaps Lebanon will benefit. Perhaps Lebanon can now be spared Israel's retaliation for Palestinian violence - unless, of course, Israel decides to strike a Palestinian "training base" in Lebanon.

No one asks what these "training bases" are. Do Palestinian suicide bombers really need to practice suicide bombing? Does turning a switch need that much training? Surely the death of a brother or a cousin by the Israeli army is all the practice that is needed.

But no. Yesterday, we took another little lethal step along the road to Middle East war, establishing facts on the ground, proving that it's permissible to bomb the territory of Syria in the "war against terror", which President Bush has himself declared now includes Gaza.

And the precedents are there if we need them. Back in 1983, when President Reagan thought he was fighting a "war on terror" in the Middle East, he ordered his air force to bomb the Syrian army in the Lebanese Bekaa Valley, losing a pilot and allowing the Syrians to capture his co-pilot, who was only returned after a prolonged and politically embarrassing negotiation by Jesse Jackson. In an era when America is ready to threaten the invasion of Syria and Iran - part of that infamous "axis of evil" - this may seem small beer. But Syria itself has seen what has happened to America's army in Iraq, and is emboldened by its humiliation to avenge the attacks of Israel or America, whatever the cost.

If America cannot control Iraq, why should Syria fear Israel?

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