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To: Seeker of Truth who wrote (39353)	10/8/2003 6:30:06 PM
From: Jacob Snyder	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 74559

What I said was: <When Hamas and the Tibetans get the Bomb ....then Israel and China will have to stop their nasty colonizing habits.> I didn't say they did it in Vietnam or Korea. Your comment about vague borders with India and Russia is irrelevant to what's happening in Tibet. My comment was in reference to Tibet, and in response to Jay's post. No need for you to respond, if you think it's irrelevant or uninteresting. Tibet has a distinct culture, religion, and language, and has been independent of China, for most of the last 1300 years. During the periods when Tibet and China were part of the same State, it was because they both had been conquered by the Mongols or Manchus. By the middle of the 19th century, the Munchu influence in Tibet had waned considerably as the Manchu empire began to disintegrate. In 1842 and 1856 the Manchus were incapable of responding to Tibetan calls for assistance against repeated Nepalese Gorkha invasion. The Tibetans drove back the Gorkhas with no assistance and concluded bilateral treaties. In 1911 the CHO-YON (priest-patron) relationship came to its final end with the fall of the Manchu Dynasty. Tibet formally declared its Independence in 1912 and continued to conduct itself as a fully sovereign nation until its invasion by Communist China an 1949. friends-of-tibet.org.nz So, the only time in their entire history when the Chinese (as distinct from the Manchus or Mongols) have ruled China, is after 1949. Since then, China has sent many Han Chinese, to live in the homeland of the Tibetans. They have done this, to change the demographic balance, develop those areas economically, and maintain central control. This is colonization. I don't need to have visited China or Tibet to see this.

To: Seeker of Truth who wrote (39353)	10/8/2003 6:54:41 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Respond to of 74559

Malcolm, there's no doubt that it was nasty colonizing of Tibet. The idea that one has to go somewhere to have an opinion, or be it to have an opinion, always seems strange to me. I'm sure you have opinions about places you've never been and people you've never met. Nowadays, we have information media - text, voice, pictures and personal contacts to enable opinions on all sorts of things outside one's own direct experience. I've never jumped off a cliff, but I'm fairly sure the similar things I have experienced are similar enough that I don't need personal experience. Our daughters have never been raped, but I don't think they need to experience it to know that it wouldn't be a lot of fun. I haven't been to Tibet, or Rwanda, or East Timor, or Baghdad, or seen the inside of a USSR salt mine or gulag, nor passed the time of day as a Jew in a concentration camp or a Maori in a pa on a cold winter's day in the 16th century. But the information I have and my ability to imagine and empathize gives me fairly reliable ideas. I haven't experienced TeoTwawki either, but I have a fair idea that it wouldn't be a lot of fun financially. Mqurice