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To: greenspirit who wrote (11430)10/9/2003 2:23:49 AM
From: KLP  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 793782
 
From the NYT yet!!~~Signaling Voter Unrest, Schwarzenegger Cut Deep Into the Democrats' Base

October 9, 2003
THE BALLOTING

By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE and MARJORIE CONNELLY

nytimes.com

OS ANGELES, Oct. 8 — Arnold Schwarzenegger pulled together a vast coalition of dissatisfied voters from across all demographic groups in California's recall election on Tuesday, winning among all age groups and, perhaps most ominously for Democrats, appearing to make inroads into their traditional base, surveys show.

In a major sign of voter unrest in this Democratic bastion, one-quarter of the people who identified themselves as Democrats voted to recall Gov. Gray Davis, a Democrat, and 18 percent voted for Mr. Schwarzenegger, a Republican.

Mr. Schwarzenegger also won 31 percent of Hispanic voters and 17 percent of black voters, doing significantly better with both groups than did Bill Simon Jr., the Republican candidate for governor in 2002.

And despite the last-minute accusations about unwanted sexual advances toward women, Mr. Schwarzenegger narrowed the gender gap that Republicans traditionally face, winning the votes of 49 percent of the men who voted and 43 percent of the women.

The numbers are based on interviews with nearly 4,000 voters as they left the polls conducted by Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International for The New York Times and other news organizations.

In fact, Mr. Schwarzenegger did almost as well with women as Mr. Davis, as measured by the 49 percent of women who supported the Democrat by voting against his recall.

More women tend to be Democratic than Republican, and this is particularly true in California, an overwhelmingly Democratic state. Here, only 36 percent of women describe themselves as Republican, and 71 percent of them voted for Mr. Schwarzenegger. So did 20 percent of Democratic women.

Mr. Schwarzenegger won pluralities of women in all age groups. He did the worst with women under 30, but still got 41 percent of their votes. His strongest supporters were men ages 30 to 44.

In addition, Mr. Schwarzenegger demonstrated enough strength to fend off any criticism that he had become governor with only a minority of the vote. Even with 135 candidates on the ballot, Mr. Schwarzenegger won more votes in favor of his candidacy (4,358,000, with 99.8 percent of the votes counted) than Mr. Davis won against the recall effort (3,541,000). And that was more than the 3,533,490 votes Mr. Davis won last November, when he was re-elected to a second term.

Combining Mr. Schwarzenegger's votes with those for another Republican, State Senator Tom McClintock, about 60 percent of those who voted on Tuesday did so for Republicans — possibly good news for the White House, which now has plausible reasons to see California as up for grabs in 2004, although President Bush's approval ratings in California are at 51 percent, no better than the rest of the country (but no worse, either). Mr. Bush is scheduled to meet with Mr. Schwarzenegger next week.

"The Schwarzenegger campaign excited Republicans, Hispanic voters and union-member households," said Ed Gillespie, chairman of the Republican National Committee. "The Democrat Party and the Democrat presidential candidates should take heed."

Democrats looking for any signs of hope might find them in the fact that Mr. Schwarzenegger's weakest support was among people with advanced degrees and people making less than $50,000 a year. And his assertion during the campaign that he would draw new voters into the party did not materialize significantly. Only 3 percent of voters said they had never voted before, and another 3 percent said they rarely voted. Of those two groups of voters, Mr. Schwarzenegger won about half of them.

The surveys also showed that more than two-thirds of the voters had made up their minds more than a month before the election. As a result, the intense publicity in the last week of the campaign about accusations of Mr. Schwarzenegger's unwanted sexual advances appeared to have had little effect on how women — and others — voted.

Surveys indicate that the sputtering economy remains an overriding concern for California voters.

A full 83 percent said the economy was in bad shape. That number shows a serious erosion of confidence in the state's economic health since Governor Davis was re-elected 11 months ago. At that time, 47 percent perceived the economy to be in bad shape, according to a survey by The Los Angeles Times.

Various surveys have shown that a vast majority of voters believe the state is on the wrong track, an important signal of discontent in electoral politics, and that voters have been alarmed about the state's plunging credit rating, the exodus of more than 100,000 manufacturing jobs and a budget deficit of billions of dollars.

The surveys also suggest that Mr. Davis misinterpreted the economic anxiety in his state or did not appreciate it. This was evident in his signing of a bill to allow illegal immigrants to get drivers' licenses, a move that the survey found was opposed by 70 percent of voters. Interviews with voters have shown that many Californians perceive the drivers' license issues as less a social issue than an economic one. By giving licenses to illegal immigrants, many voters say, the state would attract more illegal immigrants who would be a drain on already strained resources like schools. Mr. Davis had vetoed the measure twice before signing it this summer.



To: greenspirit who wrote (11430)10/9/2003 2:39:26 AM
From: LindyBill  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 793782
 
Thanks for the post, Mike. I appreciate the support. However, I do think that FL has a point. I realize that I had let my personal posts get a little too extreme, and I think he was gently pointing this out. You are allowed to rant and rave more than I am. :>)

We do need more Liberal posters. But they get attacked so fast, by numerous posters, that I think we tend to run them off. I am surprised JohnM puts up with the beating he gets. But I am grateful he does, and glad he is here.

This blog points out something that has really got me excited. The rise of Blogs as a source of Info, and the rise of the local paper's stories as a place for "little people," to get info out that then spreads to the country. We are getting case after case of stories written by reporters for "Podunk News" who interview local people who go to Iraq, and feature their report in their small paper. A Blogger picks it up, and within a day the world knows the story. This is really a wonderful new way for info to spread.
________________________________

RANTING PROFESSORS
IT IS THE INTERNET DRIVING THIS. It isn't only bloggers commentary. I was trying to explain that Iraq was not a "quagmire" to a skeptical colleague yesterday and I realized there is a second way it is the internet that is making it impossible for the mainstream media to control the narrative here. The mainstream media is national. Part of what is happening on this story, though, is that as people are returning from Iraq, and seeing the disconnect between their own experiences and what they are seeing on the national media, they are writing that up for their local media, smaller, regional or local papers who will publish those first person accounts that contradict the "master narrative." Ten, even five years ago, there would be no way to see at a national level, that those individual accounts cohered. Those smaller newspapers were generally only archived at libraries in their regions. But now they are all on the web. So with bloggers driving the search . . . it becomes possible to pull them together into a second, competing narrative subversive of the one operating at the mainstream level but still national.
rantingprofs.blogspot.com



To: greenspirit who wrote (11430)10/9/2003 12:13:44 PM
From: JohnM  Read Replies (4) | Respond to of 793782
 
So the thread is free to debate the issues, talk about the political ups and downs and present their ideas without name-calling and degenerating into rude behavior.

Michael, you clearly either read selectively, lack empathetic talents, or some other such low level sin. I invite you to sit in my chair for a while and note the ill will some of the extreme right wingers here evidence. It's silly, self defeating, and childish, but it's definitely there. Bill doesn't stop it. Whether he should or not is strictly up to him. But he doesn't participate, at least not at the level of the worst, and that gives it less legitimacy.

As for your comments about the California election, you can hardly call the dem establishment "radicals." They may have run a bad campaign--it was certainly not good politics but then the negatives going in might have doomed any serious Dem campaign as soon as Davis decided to fight the recall and oppose any serious Dem candidate. Had Feinstein agreed to run, the story would have been completely different.

So this is not right wing time for California. It's the politics of the theater. We don't know whether this guy can govern; and, most importantly for you, whether he governs in ways that will please you. Check, much to my surprise, the George Will column Bill posted.