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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: JohnM who wrote (11828)10/11/2003 10:14:10 AM
From: LindyBill  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793917
 
Thanks for this piece on Guantanamo.
Here is an argument on the other side. "Ranting Professors."
_______________________

WHO KNEW THE RED CROSS HAD SUCH A PITHY SENSE OF HUMOR? Everywhere you looked today there was coverage of the International Red Cross's complaints about the US continued detention of Al Queda and Taliban detainees at Guantanamo Bay. The problem with this is two-fold. First, the complaint centers on the fact that since they are to be held until the cessation of hostilities, their detention is open-ended. The Red Cross is using this as yet another opportunity to complain that the detainees have still not been given lawyers or been charged.

Every single time this comes up the media simply repeats the complaint without question, argument, or dispute. They have not been charged or given lawyers because they are not in the criminal justice system, their detention isn't punitive, anymore then was the detention of German prisoners during World War II. They are being held because if they were released, they'd jump back in the game and try and kill more Americans. But wait, you ask, if that's the case, why the reluctance to call them "prisoners of war"?

I'm no lawyer, but in purely practical terms they are being treated as prisoners of war. To call them prisoners of war, however, grants them a legitimacy that is simply unthinkable, for it concedes that their vision of what war is -- the targeting of non-combatants, the elimination of a brightline between combatants and non-combatants that has existed for thousands of years -- is fine by us. It would mean that we would be giving to people worthy only of the label "killers" the honor of being called "soldier." That cannot happen.

rantingprofs.blogspot.com



To: JohnM who wrote (11828)10/11/2003 11:18:54 AM
From: LindyBill  Respond to of 793917
 
The "New York Times" faces up to it's major problem. I keep saying "Their interest is in selling papers."
Money quote:

"Over the years the public has become more suspicious of the way the press plays its watchdog role," Mr. Kohut said, "because it believes it's a way to build an audience more than it is about finding information that serves the public interest."
________________________________________________

October 12, 2003
Working to Spin Distrust of Media Into Votes
By JIM RUTENBERG - NEW YORK TIMES

When The Los Angeles Times published articles just days before the California recall election detailing reports of inappropriate sexual behavior by Arnold Schwarzenegger, its editor steadfastly defended the timing.

"It is a paper's job to disclose anything it knows that bears on a candidate's fitness for office — before Election Day, not after," the editor, John Carroll, said.

But Republicans on talk radio, the Internet and some cable television talk shows accused the newspaper of shilling for Gov. Gray Davis. And many voters agreed. "This is a Davis ploy — he's the king of dirty tricks," one Schwarzenegger voter said, adding, "If anything, it made me want to vote for him more."

Mr. Schwarzenegger's election put more than incumbent politicians on notice. It also gave pause to the establishment news media, with implications that go beyond a single governor's race, political and media analysts said. Other candidates running as insurgents — like Howard Dean and Gen. Wesley K. Clark — are proving they can overcome potentially damaging coverage by positioning the news media as part of the establishment they are fighting.

They are being helped by two increasingly important factors. More outlets are available on radio, cable and the Web where commentators can make their cases, unfiltered, to ever-larger numbers of people. And polls show that the public's perception of the mainstream news media is growing more negative.

"The media couldn't stop us because the people are becoming savvy to the media," said Jesse Ventura, the former wrestler who was governor of Minnesota from 1999 to 2003, referring to Mr. Schwarzenegger and himself. "They're realizing the media's dishonest."

Mimicking the Schwarzenegger campaign's line that the Los Angeles Times articles about groping were a result of "puke politics" by the Davis campaign, Rush Limbaugh, the radio talk show host, told listeners on Election Day that the newspaper's journalists were "dastardly political assassins who use ink instead of bullets to hit candidates under the cover of objective journalism."

Mr. Carroll said such commentary stoked the anger of the paper's readers, more than 1,000 of whom have canceled subscriptions in response to the articles, according to the newspaper. "False stories about the newspaper were circulated locally, and instead of having the obscure death they deserved, they were picked up by the talk shows," Mr. Carroll said, citing a rumor that an article had been held for weeks, for effect.

"These are pure gold for the talk shows," he said, "because the talk shows are directed at people who are alienated and resentful and who want a target for their feelings."

Mr. Carroll said something else was feeding the conspiracy theories. "This was a genuine, grass-roots rebellion, which is to say an emotional upheaval of the electorate," he said. "And the passions that were expressed in the recall movement were also directed against the paper."

Similar forces seem to be at play in Dr. Dean's campaign, and, perhaps to a lesser extent, in General Clark's.

Despite articles about General Clark's recent flip-flopping on his support of the war in Iraq, he emerged as a leader in the Democratic field — though heavy coverage of his candidacy certainly helped.

Dr. Dean seemed to waver under intense questioning by Tim Russert on NBC's "Meet the Press" in June about stances on a balanced budget amendment and a prescription-drug plan supported by the president.

Despite that performance and bad reviews from commentators, Dr. Dean's supporters rallied, more than tripling donations on his Web site for an average Sunday that day, campaign officials said. Joe Trippi, Dr. Dean's campaign manager, said the reaction was so strong because "there's a real feeling of ownership from the people who support us."

"It's not just Howard Dean that's getting attacked," Mr. Trippi said. "It's them. They want to change the country, and you're trying to stop them from changing it when you attack them."

Barbara Levin, a spokeswoman for NBC News, said Mr. Russert was only doing his job. "When Russert asks tough questions of Democrats, they don't like it. When he asks the tough questions of Republicans, they don't like it either."

Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press, which regularly polls people on attitudes toward the news media, said that in 1985, 17 percent of people said the news media got in the way of leaders trying to do their jobs, and nearly two-thirds said they were a positive force. By last year 31 percent said the news media were a positive force and 58 percent said they get in the way when it comes to solving problems. That descent, he said, was hastened by the scandal over President Bill Clinton's affair with an intern.

"Over the years the public has become more suspicious of the way the press plays its watchdog role," Mr. Kohut said, "because it believes it's a way to build an audience more than it is about finding information that serves the public interest."

But many mainstream journalists blanch at defending their motives, preferring to let the reporting speak for itself. Mr. Carroll said he was writing an opinion article for Sunday's paper to address the charges, an acknowledgment that in this climate, a standard line like "we stand by our story" will not do. But he is not likely to appear on "Hardball" on MSNBC or "Hannity & Colmes" on Fox News Channel.

"I was raised in the South with a high premium put on manners," he said. "I'm not about to go on a show in which people are shouted down."
nytimes.com