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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (117147)	10/18/2003 3:22:19 PM
From: Eashoa' M'sheekha	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

>>So.. I guess you are implying that US policy should be to permit these extremists to wipe Israel, the only democracy in the region, off the map<< Absolutely not. Israel is well capable of defending itself,with the endless supply of weapons of mass distruction and money of coarse.I fully support Israel's right to defend itself within the 1967 boarders.I am a zionist by definition. >>and to accept that it's responsible for making these militants have to resort to causing a billions in global economic damage and attempting to murder 50,000 US citizens? Some policy.<< For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. We are now witness to the reaction. >>What about the blind support of Arab dictators for terrorists like Arafat and Hamas? Don't they bear any responsibility for the rise of Islamic militancy?<< Hamas IS Islamic militancy.Arafat is the elected leader of the Palistinian Authority.Israel and America do not recognize his authority.Is that your idea of democracy? >>you perceive it as being proper for every Muslim to wage "Jihad" on behalf of the Palestinians, << Where exactly did I say this? Quit the cheesy high school debate tactics will ya! >>why isn't proper for all Christians to wage "Crusade" on behalf of oppressed Christians who had Islamic leaders imposed upon them (the Copts of Egypt come immediately to mind).<< So does Indonesia, China, and a few other Anti - Christian countries,but it isn't about what is proper and what isn't, it is about the choices people make in the country they hapen to live.One of them is to leave,if they can,but it doesn't give anyone else on the planet necessarily the " RIGHT " ,not least the desire,to invade that country. >>And using your logic I guess you also believe women are to blame for being raped because they wear revealing clothing. Or that "honor killings" by parents and relatives against other family members is entirely legitimate? Or that rich people deserve to be robbed/murdered by poor people because they obviously must have obtained their wealth at the expense of the poor?<< Oh stop it for Chrissakes Hawk! You talk about extremists?Just listen to yourself! >>How far do you want me to take your inane analogy related to Israel? How can you blame the Jews for seeking to reclaim what their forebears were dispossessed of initially by the Romans, then Muslims, and then the Crusaders? Can you blame them for seeking their little "slice of heaven" from the former Ottoman Empire, since every other Arab tribe seemed be receiving THEIR own slice of geography from it?<< Then by your thinking,America and Canada should return all the land it took from the Indians.Australia to their native people.New Zealand to the Mori<sp> etc..etc.. Good luck with THAT argument. >>And what about the 1 million Jews who were evicted from Muslim nations? Does that not justify Jewish extremism by your logic?<< My understanding is that most of the Jews were pursuaded to move to Israel by both the Muslems and the State of Israel itself,but I have no doubt Muslim nations were particularly interested in seeing them leave. >>>I and my country FULLY SUPPORTED the so called " War On Terrorism On which planet? << I'm not impressed,nor surprised, by that comment Hawk. >>Namely to restore peace and stability to the region.<< Yes,and things are going swimmingly,according the Bush propagandists. The region is more unstable than it has been for fifty years. >> And as I've previously stated, Iraq was invaded in order to create pressure upon the Saudi royals to rein in their militant clerics. (which we're beginning to see taking effect).<< Ya right.You invaded Iraq to influence the Saudis. Where do you get this stuff??!! >>And just where is this "extremist idealism" you refer to eminating from? From Saudi Arabia, that's where. Financed by oil money, and Wahhabist religious leaders and proliferated throughout the Muslim world, where now some 80% of all US based Mosques have been taken over by militant clerics.<< But the Saudis are allies,aren't they? So why not go after the Wahhabists? >>Sorry KC.. I don't "swing" that way... Sorry to disappoint you<< Interesting response after your personal attack on me. So which way Do you swing? heh heh Gotta run.. Nice chatting with you...I think.<GG>

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (117147)	10/18/2003 3:41:40 PM
From: carranza2	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

The French do it again. I'm surprised no one here has brought out the fact that the French kept the EU from condemning Mahatir's recent anti-Semitic "Jews rule the world" commentary: haaretzdaily.com BRUSSELS, Belgium - French President Jacques Chirac blocked the European Union from ending a two-day summit Friday with a harshly worded statement condemning Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad's remarks about Jews a day earlier. Backed by Greek Prime Minister Costas Simitis, officials said, Chirac objected to a few short sentences in a 19-page summit statement deploring Mahathir's comment at an Islamic leaders summit that "Jews rule the world by proxy." Foreign ministers Thursday night had drafted a text that said: "His unacceptable comments hinder all our efforts to further interethnic and religious harmony, and have no place in a decent world. Such false and anti-Semitic remarks are as offensive to Muslims as they are to others." Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini told reporters Thursday night Mahathir's remarks were "gravely offensive." But when the paper was handed to EU leaders Friday morning, Chirac said there was no place in an EU declaration for a text of this kind, diplomats said. Other leaders agreed, although the Netherlands wanted the wording to stay in the declaration. The leaders then compromised by having Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi, the summit host, criticize Mahathir at his closing news conference. The French Embassy in Israel issued a statement saying that Chirac condemned the Malaysian's prime minister's statements about Jews, but that the French President felt that the EU summit statement was not the appropriate place to express this. Officials said the draft text also would be issued as a separate statement and would be posted on the EU presidency website, ueitalia2003.it. Berlusconi told reporters Mahathir's comments about Jews undermine efforts to bring different religions closer. "All of our efforts must go toward a dialogue between the Western world and the Islamic world, between Christian religion and Islamic religion," he added. Britain summons Malaysian diplomat Britain summoned Malaysia's top diplomat in London on Friday to express concern about Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad's remark that Jews rule the world, the Foreign Office said. Malaysian High Commissioner Mohammed Dato'Abdul Aziz was summoned Friday morning to meet Minister of State Mike O'Brien "to raise our concerns directly about Prime Minister Mahathir's speech," the Foreign Office said. "It's unfortunate that Mahathir chose to make these remarks which we regard as unacceptable. It's particularly regrettable that some of his positive and welcome messages, such as negotiation being the right path to peace and the futility of terrorism, have been obscured and overshadowed by racist remarks," the Foreign Office said. <<UPDATE>>>> haaretz.com