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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: tejek who wrote (176808)	10/20/2003 5:34:29 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1579060

You seem to think that once slavery was abolished things were hunky dorey. You seem to be remarkably bad and guessing what I think. I said, and I think nothing of the sort. Your assumed premise seems to be that if things are not "hunky dorey" that AA is justified and/or a good thing. I do not agree with that premise. Its the centuries of discrimination and slavery that AA is making up for All of those that experienced slavery are dead. Many, perhaps the majority of those benefiting from AA where not around to experience the unabated discrimination that you talk about. BS. White and male are the two biggest advantages in this country. Everything else pales by comparison. Nonsense. Rich, educated, and well connected all trump either white or male. In many situations white and male are not even advantages, in some they are even disadvantages. Perhaps the number of times they are disadvantages is less then the number of times they are advantages but even if that is true they are far from the biggest advantages. The advantages created by AA are like a drop in a large lake. Not really, but even if they where its not a good idea to deliberately use race to decide who gets accepted or not esp. as a government policy. Any person of color, someone of a religious difference and/or a women living now have all experienced discrimination at some point in their lives. Discrimination is ubiquitous in this country. Perhaps but that isn't a defense of what you said. You said " I guess you're assuming that C. Powell's will not experience discrimination because they are C. Powell's children. No one can be sure of that given the nature of the American mindsight; hence, they're entitled to any benefits they can derive from AA.". Your guess was wrong because I don't assume that Powell's children and grandchildren will not experience unfair discrimination, but more importantly your response says that because I can not be sure that they will not experience discrimination that AA is justified. If you turn around and say that you are sure that they will experience unfair discrimination that still doesn't mean that your original argument is sensible. Whether you meant to or not you said that the possibility that minorities might experience unfair discrimination justifies AA. I don't accept that idea. If you don't either than we can move on to other things that may or may not justify AA. If you do accept that idea then I would like to see you directly support it. Dealing more directly with your more recent comment I would say that discrimination is common. I think ubiquitous overstates things, but no one could reasonably say it is rare. So based on that fact we can either try to move towards treating people as people (my preferred solution), or we can perpetuate the idea that people should be treated in one way or another because of their skin color (the AA "solution") "AA by definition isn't giving equal consideration, its giving some groups special consideration or bonuses." It gives all groups except white males special consideration. Why do you think that is? No it doesn't give all groups except white males special positive consideration. It often discriminates against Asians or white females or other groups. In very rare cases it actually benefits white males but it is just as unjust in those cases as it is in all of the other situations. In order to create a level playing field......due to cultural biases, white males in this society have a built in preferential treatment. You can't create a level playing field by treating people unfairly. You might get a playing field that tilts one way sometimes and the other the rest of the time but it wont be level and in the mean time the nature of the system encourages a political push to tilt the benefits one way or another rather then a disinterested attempt to actually level the playing field. The only way the playing field ever will be level is if over the years, perhaps generations racial concerns fade away as something that is unimportant. AA encourages all races to focus more on race instead of focusing on people. It encourages a fight for the spoils the system gives out instead of encouraging an ethic of fair and just treatment. Because they don't want to deal with gov't paperwork AND because they usually get the plum, private jobs. They only go after gov't work when times are bad. They don't want to deal with extra paperwork because they are discriminated against when they try to go through the process. Yes, I know........so what? Are you in this for the white race, or are you in this for the betterment of America? The betterment of America, which is why I strongly oppose AA. AA is progress.....its a necessary step in assuring equality for all people in this country. AA is a process that doesn't lead anywhere positive. Also for the people negatively effected it is a process like (even if weaker then) the "unabated discrimination" prior to the 60s. Why is it that you rail against AA but you ignore the de facto preferential treatment that goes on daily in this country? 1 - The defacto preferential treatment is fading away. AA is not. 2 - AA is a policy. Policies can be made when the groups making the policies decide to change them. Unofficial racism by individuals is not so easily subject to political solutions. Hidden systematic racism by organizations, when discovered usually causes that organization to be slapped around. AA policies are allowed to stand and even praised in many circles. If other forms of racism besides AA where allowed to stand and even met with widespread praise, while AA caused the organization using it to be slapped around then my complaints would probably be different. 3 - You are defending AA. No one here is calling racism other then AA a good thing. I respond to what is posted here. If other forms of racism are praised here I will respond to them. Tim