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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: tejek who wrote (176829)10/20/2003 8:26:28 PM
From: TimF  Respond to of 1579244
 
What you said was that C.Powell's kids had more advantages then the average kid growing up. That comment implies discrimination was not an issue.

No it does not. Discrimination was an issue they had to face but that doesn't change the fact that they had many advantages. With his grandkids this is even more true. The advantages are even greater and the discrimination less.

Whether or not you think his kids had it easier then average they did have easier then millions of white Americans even if it was harder then the average white American. His grandkids definitely had more advantages then the average American of any race. Again I'm not decrying the advantage. I have no problem with it, the rich and influential can help their kids get a good start, that just part of life and one I would not try to change.

Assuming Powel has great great grandchildren should they also get AA bonuses?

You saw the report saying that with all other things being equal, short people make less $$$ than tall people.

Yes and it reinforced my opinion.

And yet, you continue to think that things are wonderful for people of color.

I don't think I ever insisted that.

Really, that's not been my experience. Maybe its working in a gov't town that gives you that viewpoint.

Personal experience really isn't debatable, you have yours and I have mine and I don't think either of us is lying. I will say that my personal experience is not limited to Northern VA, and my statement is not based entirely on personal experience.

Of course not.....and it wasn't a good idea to own slaves but they did. It wasn't a good idea to continue to discriminate against former slaves but they did.

Yup, slavery, Jim Crow, and AA. All bad ideas that happened despite the fact that they where bad ideas...

Now that the whites have finally accepted that blacks have to be treated equally, they want the slate wiped clean of hundreds of years of discrimination and abuse, and start the whole thing from scratch.

I don't want "the slate wiped clean". I don't want a slate. I want people treated as people not as some object to tally or as groups to pit against each other in the battle for political advantage.

Hey, we can argue it back and forth but the bottom line......its my belief that AA is good for all groups including white males

1 - I understood that was your bottom line but I wish you could either defend or concede one of that statements you made other then your bottom line. Specifically your statement about how since I can not be sure that they will not experience discrimination that AA is justified. Even if your overall point could be proven right that could still be wrong.

2 - My bottom line is that AA is bad for all Americans including black females.

Its just not possible to ignore the years of past discrimination.

I wouldn't ignore past discrimination but the country has to move on an not subject future generations to a situation where they get advantages and disadvantages based on the color of their skin.

Plus, if you recognize that discrimination is still common, then how can you possibly expect minorities and women to get a fair shake when the most of the controls still reside with white males.

In many areas of life discrimination is a very minor factor. In some places and in some areas of life it is not so minor. Many people get a fair shake in life. Others will not, but having a government system of preferences and quotas will only perpetuate racial consciousness and hostility and discrimination. The way to end discrimination is to stop discriminating not to discriminate in a different way. The consistent message should be that government discrimination based on race should be illegal and that visible private discrimination based on race should be socially unacceptable.

It gives all groups except white males special consideration. Why do you think that is?

Because white males still have most of the power.


You answer your own question, and a question that itself makes an inaccurate statement. AA doesn't give all groups but white equal consideration. Your answer is also inaccurate. White males might still have a disproportionate share of power but not most of it. In my personal experience I can say that out of my last 5 bosses 3 have been women. My current boss is a black woman, and I have had other female and non-white bosses. Of course this is just anecdotal but if follows a trend around the country. If you control for education and experience white men might still have an advantage but it would be slight in the nation as a whole and it is perhaps nil in my situation.

Look around you.......how many actors of color are leading men.....I can count them on one hand

How many young leading actors can you name without putting any time or effort in to it. Being able to count them on one hand might still be enough to be proportionate to their percentage of the population, and even if it isn't, you still don't have evidence of major current discrimination in Hollywood. The fact that their are few white basketball players, and that there are less white people in professional football and baseball then their % of the population doesn't mean that they are discriminated against.

If an apt. building has minority occupancy of more than 35%, within a year, it will be totally a minority building. At 35%, whites perceive that the building is over 50% minority and move as quick as they can. This is all stuff I learned developing and managing apt buildings.

That might still be true or it might not. If it is then it is a sign of prejudice but not any discrimination against black tenants and while I find it sad that there would be such prejudice its existence is not an argument for AA, in fact AA will probably just increase the amount that people think about the race as a defining characteristic of a person rather then a factor equivalent to hair or eye color.

I agree that we have a way to go and one of the best ways to get there is to dump AA. We have eliminate most of the formal discrimination people face. What is left is the prejudiced negative thoughts about some races in peoples "hearts and minds". To change that takes a long time but AA just makes it worse.

Tim