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Politics : Israel to U.S. : Now Deal with Syria and Iran -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: rrufff who wrote (2706)	10/24/2003 9:00:35 AM
From: Scoobah	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 22250

Ruff, there's no real need to confront these people directly, I prefer the truth be posted alongside their rantings, so that the whole world knows their game: IAF report quickly dispels rumors on Gaza strike By Ze'ev Schiff There is one document that, in some ways, offers even better testimony than do real-time photographs from a pilotless drone as to what the Israel Air Force command really knew about Monday's missile strikes in Gaza. It is an internal report on the operation sent by IAF headquarters to all air force units. This document, which reached hundreds of personnel, was sent out after news reports began claiming that helicopters had deliberately fired missiles into a crowd of Palestinian civilians gathered near one of the targets. The drone's camera showed no such crowd, but the camera's lens might not see everything happening on the ground around the target. But anyone who thinks it is possible to lie in a bulletin sent to every unit of the IAF and not be caught does not know the air force. Any lie or distortion would quickly be noticed - and leaked. The bulletin was sent out on Tuesday in response to plea by two IAF base commanders who, having heard the media reports, wanted to know what really happened. It was drafted by the head of the operations division, with the approval of IAF Commander-in-Chief Major General Dan Halutz. The following are excerpts from the text. The full text, minus a few operational details having mainly to do with munitions, appears in today's Hebrew Haaretz; details omitted even in the Hebrew are marked here by ellipses: "The following document briefly describes yesterday's [i.e., Monday's] operational activity. The document is being sent so that you will know the facts ... I. The IAF conducted five strikes against terrorist organizations in the Gaza Strip yesterday ... III. Following are the operations and the main results, in chronological order: A. An attack on a plant for manufacturing explosives: ... Moderate damage was caused to the building. B. An attack on a car carrying weapons: Two missiles were fired, which hit the car directly. C. An attack on a munitions warehouse: 1. One missile was fired, which destroyed the building. 2. The building blew up, indicating the presence of munitions. D. An attack on a car carrying suicide terrorists: Two missiles were fired, which hit the car and killed the two suicide terrorists inside it. E. Another attack on the explosives manufacturing plant (the plant attacked in item A): 1. It was attacked with ... to minimize collateral damage. 2. The result was ... and the building was seriously damaged. 3. The attack was halted because people approached. IV. Main points: ... C. All the targets were targets belonging to terrorist organizations engaged in producing arms or organizing attacks. D. In the planning and execution, maximum efforts were made not to hurt uninvolved persons. Despite this, when [there is] fighting against terrorists who deliberately live among a civilian population, uninvolved persons are sometimes hurt. E. With respect to the media reports of a missile that went astray and massive injury to uninvolved persons, it is important that you know the facts: 1. All the munitions struck their targets exactly. 2. In every attack, at the time the munitions were fired, neither the operational nor the video films showed any uninvolved persons. 3. There was no firing of munitions into a crowd. 4. In the attack on the car carrying the suicide terrorists, the second missile was fired about a minute after the first missile struck. At the time the missile was fired, no uninvolved persons were spotted, but by the time the missile hit, a small number of people had apparently already arrived at the scene. In any event, according to the films, there was no massive injury to uninvolved persons and there was no firing into a crowd. V. Summary A. The results were very good. B. Planned terror attacks were prevented and many armaments were assaulted. C. Maximum precautions were taken, in both planning and execution, to avoid harming uninvolved persons." The above document reflects what the IAF knew, but it does not offer a full explanation for the large number of Palestinian casualties. In any event, air force policy on the conflict with the Palestinians remains unchanged, so this is probably not the last time such operational-ethical questions will arise.

To: rrufff who wrote (2706)	10/24/2003 11:01:25 AM
From: Emile Vidrine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 22250

"would you do if you lived under the threat of terror on a daily basis? " 1. I would stop building illegal settlements for the fanatic Jewish fundamentalists/Orthodox and dismantle the hundreds of illegal settlements already built. 2. I would stop illegally occupying my neighbors--Palestinian territory, Syrian Golan Heights, and Lebanon's Bekaa Farms. 3. I would stop using jets, helicopter gunships, tanks, and missiles to daily murder occupied Christians and Moslem Palestinian civilians. 4. I would stop trying to expand the Zionist dream by military conquest and propaganda. IF THE ZIONISTS STOPPED ALL THESE ILLEGAL ACTIVITES, THEY WOULD NOT FACE TERRORISM. Very simple!

To: rrufff who wrote (2706)	10/26/2003 9:49:52 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 22250

Re: Do you approve of 9/11? As I've hammered it again and again: 911 was a Judeofascist job plotted by Russian, Israeli, and French spooks.... Of course, American traitors were likely involved as well. Message 18190885 I've just finished reading April '65 -- Confederate Covert Action in the American Civil War... it was a fascinating read --especially the episode about the failed attempt to put New York City aflame by Confederate "destructionists". Author Tidwell (a retired US Brig. General who worked for US intelligence for over 25 years) tells us how (in 1865) several Confederate arsonists tried to set fire simultaneously in three hotels in downtown NYC with the hope that the fire would spread and turn the whole city ablaze... ring a bell? Gus