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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: skinowski who wrote (117738)	10/26/2003 9:57:24 AM
From: Sun Tzu	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

> Helping people who gave their lives fighting against the aggressive Soviet imperialism was the right thing to do, both ethically and politically. Yes it was. What was not the right thing to do was to play favorites with the groups who were fighting the Russians and cutting off people like Ahmed Shah Masood while allowing Saudi and Pakistan wage proxy wars and extend spheres of influence. And take it from someone who was there at the time, we had no intention of helping the Afghans. Our goal was to hurt the Soviets. These two are not the same thing. Among other things, we distributed children "textbooks" which taught math by counting dead Russian soldiers. Call me old fashioned, but I don't think counting dead soldiers is how kids should learn math under any circumstances. Yet even then, it was obvious how this was going to turn out. We just did not want to see it. There was this Afghan girl who'd gone to the American school back in Kabul and was now working in UNHCR. Her father had been an opposition figure in Afghanistan and was killed by the Marxist government. It was pretty clear that her having a job in UNHCR where she constantly got to meet with State Department officials and Afghan fighters had more to do with her connections and background than with her language and office skills. Anyway, one day one of the State department's "visitors" asked her so what the Russians doing to Afghans? He was of course being a wise ass and wanted to get her reaction to the toy bombs that the Russians were dropping in Afghan villages. What do you think her answer was? Do you think she said something like, "they are a bunch of heartless animals and we need your help to blow them to kingdom come"? Well she did, but not quite. She simply answered, "Exactly the same kind of things Americans did to Viet Namese". They may have been unsophisticated farmers. But they were not dumb. In all the conversations I had with the Afghans then, not even once did I meet one who mistook our intentions or could not read what games we were playing between different factions. So yes, we should have helped. But no we did not. We simply wanted to hurt the Russians and freeing Afghanistan was a side effect.

To: skinowski who wrote (117738)	10/26/2003 1:06:22 PM
From: Sidney Reilly	Respond to of 281500

For some reason, one hears very often this zero-sum (flat earth?) stationary world argument. Back then, when the Russians invaded Afghanistan they were not "Russians", they were Soviets, a superpower with thousands of nuclear warheads aimed at American cities. Helping people who gave their lives fighting against the aggressive Soviet imperialism was the right thing to do, both ethically and politically I agree 100%. My only point is we have to consider that the CIA had Al Queda in their pocket all along. I voice some opposing views and everyone tries to pigeon hole me in one political box.