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Politics : Moderate Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: tsigprofit who wrote (4154)	10/27/2003 11:21:07 AM
From: rrufff	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20773

I largely agree with you. However, the problem is in the implementation. The Bush administration doesn't seem to know how to admit that anything is going less than 100% right. On the other hand, the UN, which is largely the French, the Germans and the Russians, I believe, enjoy being in the position of criticizing an increasingly difficult situation. As I mentioned a couple of weeks ago, I personally don't think that the UN would actually ante up either the money or the troops even if the US ceded whatever "control" the UN sought. The net result might very well look similar to what we are seeing today. It's not just American life that is being lost. Actually, the American loss of life is relatively small (but not minimal and certainly something that should be avoided at all costs.) The targeting today of UN workers and Iraqis, I believe, will continue even if the US were to leave tomorrow. As this is a Moderate thread, perhaps there needs to be some recognition that a good part of the violence is not just a protest against occupation, but rather attempts to intimidate the population. Whether it's remaining Baathists, Fundamentalists, Al Queda or a combination, these groups won't leave, IMO, if the US cuts and runs.

To: tsigprofit who wrote (4154)	10/27/2003 11:39:11 AM
From: epicure	Respond to of 20773

We need to extricate ourselves, but without losing too much face. Face has already been lost by denying reality, and that's water over the damn. We can't do anything about the tarnish of America's image right now, except to make more sensible decisions going forward. We need to get out of Iraq ASAP, but preferably after turning it over to someone else- so they get the blame for what happens later. That's crucial, imo. Some blame will still follow us, simply because we went in on our own hook, and without the rest of the world (the fiction of the coalition of the willing notwithstanding). But I think less blame will attach in the long run if we get out sooner rather than later. Will this be good for the people of Iraq? Who knows. While I believe in humanitarian causes, I don't believe wars, in general, make good proxies for them. Far better to stick to real relief, and have wars to quell aggression, rather than to "free" people who aren't particularly anxious to be freed. JMO, and for the future. Not much can be done about salvaging the reasons for the war in Iraq- which wasn't sold as humanitarian, and which doesn't look very humanitarian anymore.