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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: one_less who wrote (78457)	10/29/2003 11:49:00 AM
From: Solon	Respond to of 82486

I'm gone for the day but will get back to this....

To: one_less who wrote (78457)	10/29/2003 11:49:59 AM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

We are discussing the idea of a God that is not created, thus not a creature. Something you don’t believe but I do. Please pardon this stupid question. Those of us who were raised in or around Christianity got drummed into our heads at an early age that we were created in the image and likeness of God, which makes God a creature. Does your religion not portray God as a creature?

To: one_less who wrote (78457)	10/30/2003 5:14:13 AM
From: Solon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

Well said. But you must understand that it is natural and rational to discuss God as a creature when a transcendent God is the thing to be proved. I understand that you are using your God concept as a self-evident truth, or given, and that the search for "truth" is only a pretense. Unfortunately, I cannot use that which is to be proved as a premise in the proof. The best I can do for you is to acknowledge that I am aware of your belief in an uncreated God. For you it is apparently A PRIORI. However, I cannot accept your belief as a premise in the argument. "We have evidence that morally depraved individuals in history have prospered on the short term from time to time, while finding them selves in dire degradation over time" We have evidence that life is terribly unjust and indifferent. One of the great attractions of religion and starry thought is the hope that the obvious injustice here will be redressed in another place and time. Of course, it will not... Life on earth relates to the happenstance of birth. There is no "justice" in the world beyond the feeble efforts of man. "An agnostic can take a rational perspective on the condition of the soul and how it is effected by the presence of a God of order and purpose." An agnostic or an atheist can take a rational perspective on the probability or evidence for a soul. There has never been any evidence for a soul. The most prolific inventor in history was Thomas Edison. He was also a religious fanatic. Even his attempts to weigh or measure or suggest a soul failed abysmally. We could attribute the same qualities to dragons or fairies as we attribute to God(s). They are our ideas and our moral codes. We have invented thousands of myths and thousands of Gods. I guess that is clear enough.