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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: LindyBill who wrote (14596)	10/31/2003 5:42:47 AM
From: D. Long	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 793620

Hugh Hewitt is right. I lived in the middle of this area and watched what they did. Now watch the "Greens" deny the hell out of it. Awhile back Rolling Stone had an interview with Clinton's former top dog for the forestry service. Claimed that access roads on national forest lands were bad. Can't recall if he claimed they helped cause, or made worse, forest fires. I laughed my ass off. Besides allowing fire crew access, roads through parklands act as natural fire breaks. Idiot. That's the kind of people that have been running the show. Derek

To: LindyBill who wrote (14596)	10/31/2003 12:18:37 PM
From: KLP	Respond to of 793620

And then there is this: State firefighters rejected air drop request for Cedar Fire because of night regulations JUSTIN PRITCHARD, Associated Press Writer Thursday, October 30, 2003 ©2003 Associated Press URL: sfgate.com/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2003/10/30/state0152EST7678.DTL (10-30) 23:43 PST SAN DIEGO (AP) -- The first helicopter pilot to see the patch of flames that would become the catastrophic Cedar Fire radioed for aerial water drops, but state firefighters rejected his request because it came minutes after such flights had been grounded for the night. Within hours, the flames cascaded out of control and killed 13 residents between the mountains east of San Diego and the city. It eventually became the largest wildfire in California history. Southern California was already besieged by flames Saturday evening when the San Diego County Sheriff's helicopter went to search for a lost hunter who allegedly lit a beacon fire. Pilot Dave Weldon told The Associated Press on Thursday that he saw state firefighting planes on a nearby airstrip as he approached the mountains at 110 mph. He called down for help because his dispatcher had relayed reports of smoke in the area, but he got no response. That was around 5:45 p.m. A few minutes later, he spotted smoke from the fire, then only about 50 yards on each side and not spreading. As he steadied his helicopter against wind gusts, Weldon's concern mounted. Just before landing, he called for backup, asking another county helicopter to speed to the scene with its 120-gallon water dump bucket. And he urged the dispatcher to contact state firefighters and renew his request for air tankers. The problem was that under state safety guidelines, no flights can go up into waning daylight. On Saturday, the cutoff was 5:36 p.m., said California Department of Forestry Capt. Ron Serabia, who coordinates the 12 tankers and 10 helicopters now battling the 272,000-acre blaze. The sun set that day at 6:05 p.m. The helicopter with the dump bucket flew within five miles of the fire, before state officials told it to turn back, Weldon said. The air tankers never took off. Weldon was told crews would attack the fire in the morning. "We were basically just offering our assistance fighting their fire, and they turned it down," said Weldon, who with his partner delivered the hunter to law enforcement officials who cited him for setting an unauthorized fire. "I was frustrated about it, but I wasn't surprised." Weldon said the county helicopter wouldn't have been allowed to drop water after dark and said that it alone couldn't have done the job, but he thought a well-placed drop from the air tanker might have extinguished the flames. On Thursday, California's top fire official said he was not aware of the events and cited state night-flight restrictions. "If the air tankers and helicopters cannot safely fly based on daylight, they cannot respond," said Ray Snodgrass, chief deputy director of the CDF. "We certainly don't want to kill any pilots." The call from the county dispatcher came minutes after pilots had left the airstrip in Ramona for the night, Serabia said. Serabia was off Saturday, but said that if word had arrived sooner, a plane could have dropped 3,200 gallons of chemical retardant within eight minutes. What's more, pilots might have slipped in a second flight because once a plane is engaged, it can fly up to 30 minutes after cutoff. "The aircraft would have been able to suppress the fire, or at least hold it in check," Serabia said. Still, he said hindsight was pointless. "It's easy to say 'What if we did this,' or 'What if we did that,"' said Serabia, a 35-year veteran firefighter. "I'm not going to second-guess it. That's what we have to live with -- what happened, what transpired from that point after cutoff." The rules may help save pilots, but they were cold comfort to the son of one man who died hours after the county helicopter was called off. Stephen Shacklett was killed shortly after 3 a.m. Sunday when he tried to race away from the flames in his motor home. Told of Saturday evening's events in the air, his son was incredulous on Thursday. "The hugest fire in California history," said Stephen Shacklett Jr., "and they had a chance to put it out." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Associated Press Writers Kim Curtis and Elliot Spagat contributed to this report. ©2003 Associated Press

To: LindyBill who wrote (14596)	10/31/2003 12:31:37 PM
From: KLP	Respond to of 793620

One just has to wonder animals were killed by the MSCP in the fires? Up In Smoke A decade and a half of species protection planning helps bring on a species disaster in the fires of California. by Hugh Hewitt Weekly Standard >>>>>>>The listing of the rat was followed in close order by the listings of the desert tortoise, the California gnatcatcher, the Delhi sands flower-loving fly, the arroyo toad, the Riverside fairy shrimp, the San Bernadino kangaroo rat, and scores of other plants and animals. In the wake of each listing came massive dislocations in land use planning because the destruction of even a single specimen of an endangered species--innocent or intentional--carries criminal penalties. The listings also trigger massive government mapping exercises, as the Service is obliged to designate "critical habitat" for every species it denominates as "threatened" or "endangered." The critical habitat for the desert tortoise, for example, covers 6.4 million acres in three states, including huge swatches of land in southern California. <<<<<<