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Politics : Bush-The Mastermind behind 9/11? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: American Spirit who wrote (3714)	11/1/2003 11:11:32 PM
From: MSI	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20039

Two things to remember - it doesn't take an explicit conspiracy to engage in mutually beneficial activities simultaneously amounting to the same thing as planned collusion. The energy companies' ability to create shortages for profit upon inspection of power usage is one example. They don't have to talk to each other to lobby for deregulation and the ability to coordinate coercion of the public. They just need the same information. Secondly, a vast array of scenarios of unlimited complexity are developed daily for the past 50 years by a hundred think tanks and analysts. A military campaign whether US or non-US origin can make Machiavelli look like child's play, starting with Kermit Roosevelt in Iran in 1953. A German ex-intel chief said last year over 90% of the world's intel services activities are disinformation and manipulation. Ex-CIA head Wm Colby in 1975 told the Church Committee of the control of foreign and US media. Study Project Mockingbird, the "Mighty Wurlitzer", MKULTRA and various and sundry projects to combine military, psychological and political elements. When you do that, you'll begin to understand that much of what a prosperous political system does at the highest levels is purely to plan for increasingly complex ways of advancing itself, with each player operating in their own self-interest, whether they know the whole picture or not. Also, that secrecy guarantees the rise of criminality. The fact of levels of "conspiracy" is embedded since 1947 in the nat'l security act, and what followed was an elaboration of cellular need-to-know compartmentalization, leaving the officials at the top in the position of pulling off anything they want with near-complete deniability. Read "Body of Secrets" by Bamford, who interviewed hundreds of intel at all levels. Ok, given that any level of conspiracy can use all elements of national power in unaccountable ways, we are then left with absolute trust in those officials as the only prevention against criminal acts. I.e., the "trust me, it's nat'l security" policy. There is no accountability nor oversight. Senior intellegence agency committee members routinely admit they hear in closed session nothing they haven't read in the papers. Its all spin and control of legal and congressional liability. Note the administration classifying 911 related information that was already in the public domain... Why? For only one reason - to make such already-public information inadmissable in Congressional and legal investigations. Anyway, that's a long-winded way of saying collaboration and collusion can be of all flavors and unlimited complexity, with many participants unaware of anything specific, even tho' they may suspect they're involved peripherally in a great crime. Follow the money, and you'll find the culprits. You can get a better feel for it in Washington. I spoke with a top GOP lawyer early this year, who told me in a late night argument something I'll never forget, that maybe the Bush crowd was involved in 911, maybe they allowed something, etc., but "it was worth it because of all the things we are accomplishing". This more than anything else is the attitude that will destroy America.

To: American Spirit who wrote (3714)	11/1/2003 11:42:12 PM
From: Sidney Reilly	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20039

That's a conspiracy theory which assumes some right-winger is in league with Al Qaida and the Saudis and could predict exactly how the whole thing would go down. Next to impossible. It's one thing to say a "simple" assassination or two is a conspircy (probably right) but something of this magnitude, not likely. Why do you think poorly trained and poorly educated arabs who had a little flight school training could pull off 9-11 but the highly sophisticated and trained "black ops" of the government could not!! That makes no sense. It's really the other way around. How could those poorly trained arabs have done it? Answer? They couldn't!! seebo.net

To: American Spirit who wrote (3714)	11/2/2003 1:25:12 AM
From: Raymond Duray	Respond to of 20039

AS, Re: That's a conspiracy theory which assumes some right-winger is in league with Al Qaida and the Saudis and could predict exactly how the whole thing would go down. Why would the right-winger(s) have anything to do with al Qaeda, except to use these Islamic fundamentalists as the patsy? Dead men don't talk. You do recall that when the right wing took out John F. Kennedy 40 years ago that they set up Lee Harvey Oswald as the patsy, then conveniently eliminated him before his side of the story could make it into a court of law. The beauty of the myth of 19 suicidal hijackers is that they can't possibly speak for themselves. The media can be spoon fed whatever the actual conspiracists want to suggest to the media and by means of this proxy to the gullible American public. Don't think it could happen that rogue elements of the U.S. government could perpetrate a new "Pearl Harbor" on the order and magnitude of 9/11/01? Then you fail to understand that the U.S. government has a 50 year history of de-stabilizing democracies and installing strong man rule across the entire planet. Why should the U.S. be any different? Here's the groundbreaking effort: amazon.com payk.net Coups perpetrated by covert action of the U.S. government: 1953 - Iran 1954 - Guatemala 1963 - U.S.A. 1973 - Chile 2001 - U.S.A.