SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (118315)11/2/2003 5:31:27 PM
From: Ish  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
<<however, that Bush2 is a radical ideological anti-environmentalist, the most UnGreen U.S. President in 60 years (worse than Reagan, and far worse than Nixon), and there is no point in trying to negotiate with him.>>

That is your opinion and a long way from the truth. You shouldn't post it as fact.



To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (118315)11/2/2003 11:17:53 PM
From: greenspirit  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Dear Jacob, I'm not sure what proof I could offer beyond my own credibility. I use my real name on SI and have been posting here since 1996, why don't you ask around, I don't lie. It was a personal experience. Four of their members attacked me about 4 blocks from the gates of Faslane Scotland. I was walking back to base, they surrounded me and taunted me with "I'm an American murderer" BS. I ignored them and kept walking. One of them pushed me while the other one cold-cocked me on the side of the head.

In regard to Patrick Moore, many environmentalists see the logging interests as against the environment. Patrick Moore through education, experience and consultation has a different approach.

The problem with your approach is it's far too black and white. Your negative point of view toward Patrick Moore seems to rest on one assumption "Logging companies are evil and cannot under any circumstances work with an environmentalist to protect the forests". Further, any environmentalist who participates in this approach is automatically categorized as "manipulated and unworthy of listening to".

Patrick Moore was there to witness the transformation of the organization he started. No doubt he could have lived wealthy for years spinning out some green anti-business garbage books. Therefore, I doubt he took the route he did for nefarious personal interests. More likely, he took the route he did through careful reflection and a belief the organization he founded had lost its way.

Nuff said, it looks like you've already made up your mind anyway so what's the point? People who follow the religion of Pantheism are all over the place.



To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (118315)11/3/2003 12:45:18 AM
From: marcos  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
It is not useful to say 'follow the money' in re Patrick Moore, he had it made in the shade either way - Greenpeace is not exactly a nickel-and-dime outfit, he would have had lots of book-selling press power no matter what, plus he stood to inherit considerable [which would have happened a couple of years ago, when his father Bill passed away] ..... it wasn't the money, it was the glory, the ego strokes, imho .... just like his father, showman personality, the only way to really anger the guy is to ignore him .. which was never possible within sight and sound of Bill, any conscious being would be compelled to love him or hate him, or both at the same time

Patrick grew up in an inlet on Vancouver island where his father ran a highly personalised logging camp, kingdom unto itself .... he is old enough to recall the days when logging was tough difficult work, and brought status to its members, glory even, and a very decent wage ..... this was before all the fancy equipment with heated cabs and stereos etc, also before so much of this coast was logged off .... you can fly now over areas logged when P was young, and they're fine strong stands of timber again, healthier and straighter in most cases than the decadent stuff that was taken .... i know this for a fact, because i fell some of that timber, and have flown over those settings recently, i knew Bill Moore, only in the way that thousands of others did, still enough to recognise where P would be coming from

Forestry and politics should not be mixed, yet it inevitably gets politicised ... so much money in it, so many heartstrings pulled at the sight of stumps, strong feelings all round .... personally i like the look of a stump, got fruit trees planted here in and around a few stumps, could have dug them out first but then thought why not leave them, they're organic, and it's the old and the new together, cycle of life, all that good stuff .... got one snag stump here with fifty feet of its trunk beside it, must have fallen a hundred years ago, plants growing strong in them, it's beautiful, it's a dead thing rotting yes, but beautiful

On the BC coast we get all our rain from offshore weather systems, plenty of it .... this means that by clear-cutting we cannot desertify this land, that's impossible .... in fact you cannot keep the jungle down here, without constant hard work or heavy equipment [or if you had too much money like they do in those two fantastically extensive clearcuts called 'Vancouver' and 'Victoria', choke the ground with asphalt and white plastic condos] .... this is where Patrick Moore grew up, and it is of here he is thinking when saying that about clear-cutting, no doubt .... you can't do the same everywhere on this planet, in many places with less maritime influence on climate when you open up the ground to sunlight the timber will not come the same, the ground will dry up and bake - here you have to get sunlight to the seedlings, they are shade-intolerant, and the rain comes no matter what

It could be argued that this is not foreign affairs .... yet, the same things are happening here as in foreign affairs, in all human affairs in general actually - you've got some artificial dichotomy of two 'sides' battling it out, looking for advantage, people carefully neglecting firm facts they don't like and touting hard the shakey ones they do .... same same .... Patrick Moore says a goodly number of eminently sensible things that bear repeating, and does so to excess, in what amounts to partisan manner .... meantime there are lots of people on the other 'side' making important vital points, in just as partisan a manner .... it's certainly as amusing as foreign affairs, anyway