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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: gamesmistress who wrote (118606)	11/5/2003 2:23:26 PM
From: GST	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

"it's power" How about Rove and Cheney? Motivated by power or love of country?

To: gamesmistress who wrote (118606)	11/5/2003 8:25:46 PM
From: Jacob Snyder	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

<the commonly accepted meaning of patriotism ("love of country")> OK.....but everyone defines "love" in their own unique way... Your definition is useless, because it is so vague. Everyone will define anybody whose politics they disagree with, as showing no "love of country", therefore unpatriotic, and the term becomes wholly emotional, without any concrete meaning. "Patriot" and "Traitor" become epithets we hurl at each other, which really mean "I agree with you" and "I disagree and want to silence you". Here's an exercise: Make a list of people who you think are universally acclaimed, as being great Patriots of their nations. Use your own definition: love of country. Then look at their career, what they actually did. In most of these cases, perhaps all, you'll find they directly organized, championed, and/or led actions which caused the deaths of large numbers of their fellow citizens. SuperPatriots, or at least those who are labelled as such, the ones who wave the flag the most, tend to leave a trail of corpses behind them. Perhaps this is an unavoidable side-effect of "love of country". Or perhaps there are too many people who think a corollary of "love of country" is "hatred of everyone else". Or perhaps the definition needs to be re-thought. Care to be more specific than "love"? My definition (yes, I made it up without looking at any dictionary) has the virtue of being specific, measurable, tangible: A patriot is anyone who fights to expel foreign soldiers from their nation. A quisling is anyone who helps a foreign army maintain its occupation. I will not disagree with you, if you say Pol Pot was motivated by an overwhelming desire for power. I'd just point out the same applies to just about every American President, and certainly every recent one. Also, "desire for power" is quite compatible with also wanting to "kick the foreigners out". Both can be true at the same time. Patriots can also have lots of other nasty or un-nasty traits, which have no bearing on whether they are really real patriots.